This is so true. One thing I struggle with in my program is that we work
with both native language literacy and ESL. We find that people with a low
level of literacy in their first language have a lot more trouble learning
English, and especially reading and writing in English. If they are somewhat
fluent in English, they eventually hit a wall with the literacy skills,
unless they get some background in their home language. So we try to assess
people's levels, and sometimes come up against that same issue -- what if
they are high on one scale and low on the other (say, a person with some
college in their home language but who is brand new to the country and has
little or no English yet, or a person who knows a lot of English but still
can't fill out a job application without their children's help). 

Even in ESL there are differences in ability, typically the reading/writing
scale vs the speaking/listening scale. If you have to come up with a single
level to describe their ability in English, it is often bogus.

This year, for the first time, I'm finding that I have students with some
experience and skill in computer use, and even a scattering of some with
computers in their home. It's fun to teach those students, because I'm not
just starting at the basic beginning (parts of the computer, how to turn it
on and off, loading a program, etc.), but able to go beyond that to setting
up e-mail accounts and working with the Internet.

Oregon has done some work to try to pinpoint what skills go with what level,
and I believe another state other than those mentioned here has as well. But
nothing has been adopted formally as far as I know.

-------
Sylvan Rainwater  mailto:sylvan at cccchs.org
Program Manager Family Literacy
Clackamas Co. Children's Commission /  Head Start
Oregon City, OR  USA
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-pli-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-pli-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of Yvonne Lerew
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:10 AM
To: Sandy Strunk; Program Leadership and Improvement Discussion List
Subject: Re: [NIFL-PLI] RE: Using NRS Data for Program Improvement

Dear Larry,
I applaud the fact that DAEL recognizes that computer literacy is an 
important skill and should be incorporated into NRS.  I struggle however 
with the idea that, as you say,

"The Department is also planning to refine and broaden the educational 
functioning level descriptors in the future and the incorporation of 
technology skills into the descriptors will be considered.  So at some 
point there may well be some inclusion of these skills in the educational 
levels."

One of the problems I find with the NRS system is that it forces programs 
to identify and track students as a whole and does not allow for one person 
to be at different levels in different skill areas.  For example, a student 
may be at one level in reading and a different level in math, but according 
to NRS the student must have a label of a single educational functioning 
level.  Or an ESL student may have very different levels of oral skill vs. 
written skill but again must be given a single ESL level for NRS.

I think that adding computer skills to the mix further complicates the 
issue.  One student could be High Intermediate ESL, for example, and never 
have touched a computer previously.  Another student could be also High 
Intermediate ESL and be a computer programmer in their native country.

People are much more complicated than a single educational functioning 
level.  One student may have multiple levels of skills in a variety of 
areas.  In addition, adults may choose which skills are important to their 
lives at a particular time and focus on improving that skill.  I believe 
that, by separating technology related skills, oral English skills, written 
English skills, math skills, etc.; progress in each area could be accounted 
for and more accurate reports could be generated.

I appreciate any comments you may have about this issue.
Thank you,
Yvonne Lerew
At 05:14 PM 5/24/2004 -0700, you wrote:


>Date: 5/24/04 1:06 PM

>From: Condelli, Larry

>Hi David -

>

>Computer literacy is an important skill and recognized as such by most 

>people in the field, including the Division of Adult Education and 

>Literacy staff at the Department of Education.  We have struggled for 

>several years (and continue to do so) about ways to incorporate these 

>skills into the NRS at the national level.

>To add them to the NRS we need three components: (1) a recognized, 

>accepted hierarchy of computer or technology skills appropriate for ABE 

>students, (2) a way to assess these skills, and (3) a policy for tying the 

>assessments into the NRS educational levels to define advancement. When 

>the NRS was first planned in 1996-97, the department did not think that 

>any  of these components existed in a strong enough way to allow the 

>inclusion of the skills into the NRS. However, since that time there has 

>been a lot of work on defining the skill set related to technology and 

>computer use at different levels of proficiency and some assessments have 

>been developed.  We have currently begun reviewing some of these skill 

>sets and approaches toward assessment for the NRS and there are other 

>Department of education-funded projects that are looking at these issues. 

>The Department is also planning to refine and broaden the educational 

>functioning level descriptors in the future and the incorpo!

>ration of technology skills into the descriptors will be considered.  So 

>at some point there may well be some inclusion of these skills in the 

>educational levels.

>

>Of course, states may include technology-related skills into their local 

>and state accountability systems and several have already done so.

>

>Larry Condelli

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: David Rosen [mailto:djrosen at comcast.net]

>Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:49 PM

>To: Condelli, Larry

>Subject: Re: [NIFL-PLI] Using NRS Data for Program Improvement

>

>

>From: David Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net>

>Date: Sun May 23, 2004  1:39:29  PM US/Eastern

>To: nifl-pli at literacy.nifl.gov

>Subject: Re: [NIFL-PLI] Using NRS Data for Program Improvement

>

>To Larry Condelli:

>

>Sandy Strunk posted a message to the NIFL-PLI list  on May 10, 2004 from 

>Larry Condelli, Managing Director in the Education and Human Development 

>Division of the American Institues for Research, leader of the adult 

>education team, and project director for the National Reporting 

>System,  in which Larry  asks:

>

>"What data do you need that NRS does not collect?"

>

>The context of this and other questions in that message was using data for 

>program improvement.

>

>I have recently been asked by a practitioner -- and not for the first time 

>-- if there are valid and reliable assessments for measuring computer 

>literacy -- that is,  basic computer competence and comfort.  These are 

>skills needed to use computer-assisted instruction, to word process 

>writing and to search for information on a CD or on the Web.

>

>My understanding -- Larry please correct me I am wrong -- is that computer 

>literacy is not an area which is now measured through the NRS.   If it 

>were, I am not sure we have valid, reliable, standardized assessments.  Do

we?

>

>Yet, I would argue that these skills are now as important to adult 

>learners as reading, writing and numeracy.  They are required for many 

>jobs, and for participation in computer-based distance learning. Many 

>programs offer these skills because students have asked to learn 

>them.  Programs, students, and employers wonder how programs are doing in 

>helping students learn these skills.

>

>Can the NRS include these skills?

>

>David J. Rosen

>djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

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