--------------------------------------
Date: 5/26/04 12:37 PM
From: Condelli, Larry
Hi Yvonne,

Your comment touches on many of the key issues related to accountbailty and using data.  
I think we all agree that people are much more complicated than captured an an educational functioning level, and programs and instruction are more complicated too.  With accountability systems like the NRS, the goal is to be able to say something about the quality of programs and what students achieve to those who hold the system accountable.  Since we can't (and wouldn't want to) report on every aspect of students and programs -- think how burdensome and diffcult that would be -- some choices have to be made on what to report and to collect the information.  This is where most of the controversies about accountability are. Accountability requirements narrow the choices, but teachers and programs do not need to be limited just to this purpose.  You can capture many dimensions of student abilties and use them to guide currciulum, instruction and other choices.

In the NRS, if students are assessed on multiple dimensions the rule is to assign the student to the lowest functioning level and then to track progress (through assessment) on that dimension.  (Incidentally, this rule pre-dates the NRS by many years and has been ED policy for quite some time.)  However, the decisions on the specifc areas and skills on which to assess students is left to the state to decide. 
Adding another set of skills, like computer literacy, will complicate this issue even more, but if states and providers in that state believe these skills are important, adding them to the NRS descriptors provides a framework on which to teach/assess these skills. 
Larry
--------------------------------------
Date: 5/25/04 8:10 AM
From: Yvonne Lerew
Dear Larry,
I applaud the fact that DAEL recognizes that computer literacy is an important skill and should be incorporated into NRS.  I struggle however with the idea that, as you say,

"The Department is also planning to refine and broaden the educational functioning level descriptors in the future and the incorporation of technology skills into the descriptors will be considered.  So at some point there may well be some inclusion of these skills in the educational levels."

One of the problems I find with the NRS system is that it forces programs to identify and track students as a whole and does not allow for one person to be at different levels in different skill areas.  For example, a student may be at one level in reading and a different level in math, but according to NRS the student must have a label of a single educational functioning level.  Or an ESL student may have very different levels of oral skill vs. written skill but again must be given a single ESL level for NRS.

I think that adding computer skills to the mix further complicates the issue.  One student could be High Intermediate ESL, for example, and never have touched a computer previously.  Another student could be also High Intermediate ESL and be a computer programmer in their native country.

People are much more complicated than a single educational functioning level.  One student may have multiple levels of skills in a variety of areas.  In addition, adults may choose which skills are important to their lives at a particular time and focus on improving that skill.  I believe that, by separating technology related skills, oral English skills, written English skills, math skills, etc.; progress in each area could be accounted for and more accurate reports could be generated.

I appreciate any comments you may have about this issue.
Thank you,
Yvonne Lerew
At 05:14 PM 5/24/2004 -0700, you wrote:


>Date: 5/24/04 1:06 PM

>From: Condelli, Larry

>Hi David -

>

>Computer literacy is an important skill and recognized as such by most >people in the field, including the Division of Adult Education and >Literacy staff at the Department of Education.  We have struggled for >several years (and continue to do so) about ways to incorporate these >skills into the NRS at the national level.

>To add them to the NRS we need three components: (1) a recognized, >accepted hierarchy of computer or technology skills appropriate for ABE >students, (2) a way to assess these skills, and (3) a policy for tying the >assessments into the NRS educational levels to define advancement. When >the NRS was first planned in 1996-97, the department did not think that >any  of these components existed in a strong enough way to allow the >inclusion of the skills into the NRS. However, since that time there has >been a lot of work on defining the skill set related to technology and >computer use at different levels of proficiency and some assessments have >been developed.  We have currently begun reviewing some of these skill >sets and approaches toward assessment for the NRS and there are other >Department of education-funded projects that are looking at these issues. >The Department is also planning to refine and broaden the educational >functioning level descriptors in the future and the incorpo!

>ration of technology skills into the descriptors will be considered.  So >at some point there may well be some inclusion of these skills in the >educational levels.

>

>Of course, states may include technology-related skills into their local >and state accountability systems and several have already done so.

>

>Larry Condelli

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: David Rosen [mailto:djrosen at comcast.net]

>Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:49 PM

>To: Condelli, Larry

>Subject: Re: [NIFL-PLI] Using NRS Data for Program Improvement

>

>

>From: David Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net>

>Date: Sun May 23, 2004  1:39:29  PM US/Eastern

>To: nifl-pli at literacy.nifl.gov

>Subject: Re: [NIFL-PLI] Using NRS Data for Program Improvement

>

>To Larry Condelli:

>

>Sandy Strunk posted a message to the NIFL-PLI list  on May 10, 2004 from >Larry Condelli, Managing Director in the Education and Human Development >Division of the American Institues for Research, leader of the adult >education team, and project director for the National Reporting >System,  in which Larry  asks:

>

>"What data do you need that NRS does not collect?"

>

>The context of this and other questions in that message was using data for >program improvement.

>

>I have recently been asked by a practitioner -- and not for the first time >-- if there are valid and reliable assessments for measuring computer >literacy -- that is,  basic computer competence and comfort.  These are >skills needed to use computer-assisted instruction, to word process >writing and to search for information on a CD or on the Web.

>

>My understanding -- Larry please correct me I am wrong -- is that computer >literacy is not an area which is now measured through the NRS.   If it >were, I am not sure we have valid, reliable, standardized assessments.  Do we?

>

>Yet, I would argue that these skills are now as important to adult >learners as reading, writing and numeracy.  They are required for many >jobs, and for participation in computer-based distance learning. Many >programs offer these skills because students have asked to learn >them.  Programs, students, and employers wonder how programs are doing in >helping students learn these skills.

>

>Can the NRS include these skills?

>

>David J. Rosen

>djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

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