Hello John,

I met you years ago at a NCSALL meeting.  I was a PDRN from Massachusetts.

I agree with your answer for number 1.  Goals must be part of instruction
and revisited frequently.  They can and do change over time.

Nicole B. Graves
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Comings" <comingjo at gse.harvard.edu>
To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 4:01 PM
Subject: [SpecialTopics 100] Re: Fwd: Re: Persistence Discussion questions



> Sorry I'm late responding but I just got into the office after a morning

of

> conference calls and family business.

>

> Let me start by saying that the last 8 years of research has given NCSALL

> some insights into what might work to increase persistence, but we don't

> yet have proof that the changes in program services that these insights

> suggest lead to increased persistence.  However, I feel we have some of

the

> best available advice. That advice suggests two broad approaches, one is

to

> add supports to persistence in our existing programs and the other

suggests

> adding those supports to programs that are designed to fit with the

> existing patterns of participation.  The first approach is incremental and

> less expensive. That second requires changes in policy, funding,

> accountability, and service delivery.

>

> Now to Marie Cora's two questions:

>

> 1.  Goals:  The quantitative aspect of our research showed a correlation

> between students who were able to state a specific goal for attending

(they

> persisted longer) and those who stated a vague goal or no goal at all

(they

> persisted less).  So we explored the goals of students and found that they

> usually expressed both an instrumental goal ("I want to get my GED, so I

> can get a better job" for example) and a transformational goal (I want to

> be the kind of person who has a high school education," for example). Many

> programs ask students at intake to state their goals, which is probably

> helpful. But, it might be helpful to weave the goal setting process into

> instruction as well. In this way, students can have some time to think

> about what they want and why they want it. Learner-produced reading

> materials, which many programs produce, at least in small quantities,

might

> be useful in this process, but informal dialogue and writing about goals

> might work just as well. Any activities that help students articulate

their

> instrumental and transformational goals, and revisit them as part of

> instruction, probably adds this support to persistence.

>

> 2.  Stopout: In our interviews, students who had dropped out told us that

> their program would not allow them to return after they stopped attending,

> but the staff in their programs said this was not true and we observed

> students returning and being welcomed back into the program. The

> misconception started at intake and orientation, when staff emphasized

good

> attendance. Our longitudinal study is identifying a pattern of

> participation in learning that is made up of episodes of participation in

> programs and episodes of self-study.  Our research suggests that a support

> to persistence would making sure that new students know that they can

> stopout and also know how to reenter. However, we might do better to

change

> the form of participation to one that links episodes of program

> participation and self study.

>

>

> > Begin forwarded message:

> >

> >> From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> >> Date: July 10, 2006 10:02:17 AM EDT

> >> To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

> >> Subject: [SpecialTopics 90] Re: Persistence Discussion questions

> >> Reply-To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

> >>

> >> Dear Colleagues,

> >>

> >> Thanks so much to John Comings for being with us this week to discuss

> >> Persistence.  I am very much looking forward to hearing what

> >> strategies

> >> folks use out there to try and tackle this issue with their students.

> >>

> >> I actually have two questions for you (and list subscribers):  I am

> >> interested in hearing you elaborate a bit on the impact of having the

> >> student set his or her own goals, and how best to help them to do

> >> that.

> >> It's quite easy to set a student's goal for her/him - but not so

> >> easy to

> >> get a student to determine a goal for her/himself.  What are some

> >> of the

> >> things that folks do around this issue?

> >>

> >> Second, I heard you speak at a conference last fall in which you noted

> >> that part of what could be helpful in persistence, is to acknowledge

> >> that the student might not persist.  In other words, why not explore

> >> with the student the reality that if they do "stop out", this doesn't

> >> have to mean "quit".  I found this fascinating and at the same time,

> >> completely logical.  This appears to be part of what you intend in

> >> your

> >> third area of research based on what I've read.

> >>

> >> Thank you again for your time this week and for the discussion.

> >>

> >> Marie Cora

> >> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> >>

> >>

> >> -----Original Message-----

> >> From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

> >> [mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of David Rosen

> >> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:37 AM

> >> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

> >> Subject: [SpecialTopics 89] Re: Persistence Discussion

> >>

> >> Dear Colleagues,

> >>

> >> Today we begin a discussion about the studies which Dr. John Comings

> >> and others at the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and

> >> Literacy have done on persistence.  The discussion will continue

> >> through Tuesday next week, July 18th.

> >>

> >> Please post your questions and comments to John beginning now.

> >>

> >> In John's message below he describes two publications which may be of

> >> interest.  Each has a short executive summary.   There is also a 30-

> >> minute video panel discussion about the study, with John and two

> >> practitioners, streamed at:

> >>

> >> http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/persistence/persistence_cast.html

> >>

> >> You may need to cut and paste the whole web address in your browser,

> >> or you could try this shorter version:

> >>

> >> http://tinyurl.com/s6tcu

> >>

> >> Macintosh users will need to select the Quicktime format for viewing

> >> the presentation, and there are still some bugs to be worked out of

> >> the Mac streamed version.

> >>

> >> David J. Rosen

> >> Special Topics Discussion List Moderator

> >> djrosen at comcast.net

> >>

> >> On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:33 PM, David Rosen wrote:

> >>

> >>> Special Topics List Discussion Colleagues,

> >>>

> >>> John Comings, Director of the National Center for the Study of Adult

> >>> Learning and Literacy, will join us on July 10th to discuss the

> >>> persistence study he has done. John has written an introduction,

> >>> below, and included links to reports of the first two phases of the

> >>> study. I hope you can read these before July 10th.  You are welcome

> >>> to submit questions, ideas and comments for John beginning now, but

> >>> these will not be posted until July 10th.

> >>>

> >>> i am looking forward to your joining in on this important discussion.

> >>>

> >>> David J. Rosen

> >>> Special Topics Discussion List Moderator

> >>> djrosen at comcast.net

> >>> --------------

> >>>

> >>> When a group of us at World Education were preparing to write the

> >>> proposal for the funds that have supported NCSALL, we surveyed

> >>> practitioners and policy makers around the country to help us design

> >>> our research agenda. Almost 500 people participated in the survey. We

> >>> asked the survey participants to send us the questions that they

> >>> wanted answered to help them improve practice in ABE, ESOL, and GED

> >>> programs. One question was at the top of the list for teachers and

> >>> second on everyone else's list. One teacher phrased it this way,

> >>> "Just when they begin to make progress, many students leave the

> >>> program.   How can I keep those students long enough that they can

> >>> meet their educational goals?"

> >>>

> >>> That question formed the basis of a three-phase study of persistence.

> >>> The first two phases are complete.  The first phase surveyed the

> >>> literature, interviewed 150 students in the six New England states,

> >>> and identified ways that programs were trying to support the

> >>> persistence of their students. The report of that first phase can be

> >>> found at:

> >>>

> >>> <http://www.ncsall.net/fileadmin/resources/research/report12.pdf>

> >>>

> >>> In the second phase, 9 library literacy programs were provided with

> >>> funds to implement interventions that might help improve persistence,

> >>> and our study team observed the programs and interviewed their staff

> >>> and students. We also followed a cohort of 180 students for 14

> >>> months.  The report of that second phase can be found at:

> >>>

> >>> <http://www.mdrc.org/publications/401/overview.html>

> >>>

> >>> We are prepared to implement the third phase, but NCSALL no longer

> >>> has funding to begin a new research project. This next phase would

> >>> test three interventions. One would add persistence supports to

> >>> existing classroom programs, one would use a wide range of modes of

> >>> learning (in programs and through self study on-line and in other

> >>> ways) that more closely match the way adults manage their learning,

> >>> and the third would combine these two approaches. I believe the third

> >>> approach is a promising way to solve the persistence problem, as well

> >>> as it can be solved.

> >>>

> >>> I'm looking forward to your questions, but I would also be interested

> >>> in practical ideas of how to build support to persistence and how to

> >>> expand opportunities for learning.

> >>>

> >>> John Comings, NCSALL Director

> >>> National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy

> >>> Harvard Graduate School of Education

> >>> 7 Appian Way

> >>> Cambridge MA 02138

> >>> (617) 496-0516, voice

> >>> (617) 495-4811, fax

> >>> (617) 335-9839, mobile

> >>> john_comings at harvard.edu

> >>> http://ncsall.gse.harvard.edu

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> -------------------------------

> >>> National Institute for Literacy

> >>> Special Topics mailing list

> >>> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> >>

> >> David Rosen

> >> djrosen at comcast.net

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -------------------------------

> >> National Institute for Literacy

> >> Special Topics mailing list

> >> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> >>

> >> -------------------------------

> >> National Institute for Literacy

> >> Special Topics mailing list

> >> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> >

> > David Rosen

> > djrosen at comcast.net

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> John Comings, Director

> National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy

> Harvard Graduate School of Education

> 7 Appian Way

> Cambridge MA 02138

> (617) 496-0516, voice

> (617) 495-4811, fax

> (617) 335-9839, mobile

> john_comings at harvard.edu

> http://ncsall.gse.harvard.edu

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Special Topics mailing list

> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics