I hope I'm not too late to pose a question - have just gotten caught up
on this very interesting discussion.

John, Would you please elaborate a bit on "Learner-produced reading
materials, which many programs produce, at least in small quantities,
might be useful in this process, but informal dialogue and writing about
goals might work just as well." in your response to Marie below.

We (here at Central SABES) support a publication of learner produced
writings and know that the practitioners in our region of MA  would be
interested in connecting this learner writing to goal setting and thus
increased learner persistence.

Cathy Gannon


-----Original Message-----
From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of John Comings
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 4:01 PM
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: [This message may be SPAM] [SpecialTopics 100] Re: Fwd: Re:
Persistence Discussion questions
Importance: Low

Sorry I'm late responding but I just got into the office after a morning
of conference calls and family business.

Let me start by saying that the last 8 years of research has given
NCSALL some insights into what might work to increase persistence, but
we don't yet have proof that the changes in program services that these
insights suggest lead to increased persistence.  However, I feel we have
some of the best available advice. That advice suggests two broad
approaches, one is to add supports to persistence in our existing
programs and the other suggests adding those supports to programs that
are designed to fit with the existing patterns of participation.  The
first approach is incremental and less expensive. That second requires
changes in policy, funding, accountability, and service delivery.

Now to Marie Cora's two questions:

1.  Goals:  The quantitative aspect of our research showed a correlation
between students who were able to state a specific goal for attending
(they persisted longer) and those who stated a vague goal or no goal at
all (they persisted less).  So we explored the goals of students and
found that they usually expressed both an instrumental goal ("I want to
get my GED, so I can get a better job" for example) and a
transformational goal (I want to be the kind of person who has a high
school education," for example). Many programs ask students at intake to
state their goals, which is probably helpful. But, it might be helpful
to weave the goal setting process into instruction as well. In this way,
students can have some time to think about what they want and why they
want it. Learner-produced reading materials, which many programs
produce, at least in small quantities, might be useful in this process,
but informal dialogue and writing about goals might work just as well.
Any activities that help students articulate their instrumental and
transformational goals, and revisit them as part of instruction,
probably adds this support to persistence.

2.  Stopout: In our interviews, students who had dropped out told us
that their program would not allow them to return after they stopped
attending, but the staff in their programs said this was not true and we
observed students returning and being welcomed back into the program.
The misconception started at intake and orientation, when staff
emphasized good attendance. Our longitudinal study is identifying a
pattern of participation in learning that is made up of episodes of
participation in programs and episodes of self-study.  Our research
suggests that a support to persistence would making sure that new
students know that they can stopout and also know how to reenter.
However, we might do better to change the form of participation to one
that links episodes of program participation and self study.



> Begin forwarded message:

>

>> From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

>> Date: July 10, 2006 10:02:17 AM EDT

>> To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

>> Subject: [SpecialTopics 90] Re: Persistence Discussion questions

>> Reply-To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>>

>> Dear Colleagues,

>>

>> Thanks so much to John Comings for being with us this week to discuss



>> Persistence.  I am very much looking forward to hearing what 

>> strategies folks use out there to try and tackle this issue with 

>> their students.

>>

>> I actually have two questions for you (and list subscribers):  I am 

>> interested in hearing you elaborate a bit on the impact of having the



>> student set his or her own goals, and how best to help them to do 

>> that.

>> It's quite easy to set a student's goal for her/him - but not so easy



>> to get a student to determine a goal for her/himself.  What are some 

>> of the things that folks do around this issue?

>>

>> Second, I heard you speak at a conference last fall in which you 

>> noted that part of what could be helpful in persistence, is to 

>> acknowledge that the student might not persist.  In other words, why 

>> not explore with the student the reality that if they do "stop out", 

>> this doesn't have to mean "quit".  I found this fascinating and at 

>> the same time, completely logical.  This appears to be part of what 

>> you intend in your third area of research based on what I've read.

>>

>> Thank you again for your time this week and for the discussion.

>>

>> Marie Cora

>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 

>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

>> [mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of David Rosen

>> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:37 AM

>> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>> Subject: [SpecialTopics 89] Re: Persistence Discussion

>>

>> Dear Colleagues,

>>

>> Today we begin a discussion about the studies which Dr. John Comings 

>> and others at the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and



>> Literacy have done on persistence.  The discussion will continue 

>> through Tuesday next week, July 18th.

>>

>> Please post your questions and comments to John beginning now.

>>

>> In John's message below he describes two publications which may be of

>> interest.  Each has a short executive summary.   There is also a 30-

>> minute video panel discussion about the study, with John and two 

>> practitioners, streamed at:

>>

>> http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/persistence/persistence_cast.html

>>

>> You may need to cut and paste the whole web address in your browser, 

>> or you could try this shorter version:

>>

>> http://tinyurl.com/s6tcu

>>

>> Macintosh users will need to select the Quicktime format for viewing 

>> the presentation, and there are still some bugs to be worked out of 

>> the Mac streamed version.

>>

>> David J. Rosen

>> Special Topics Discussion List Moderator djrosen at comcast.net

>>

>> On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:33 PM, David Rosen wrote:

>>

>>> Special Topics List Discussion Colleagues,

>>>

>>> John Comings, Director of the National Center for the Study of Adult



>>> Learning and Literacy, will join us on July 10th to discuss the 

>>> persistence study he has done. John has written an introduction, 

>>> below, and included links to reports of the first two phases of the 

>>> study. I hope you can read these before July 10th.  You are welcome 

>>> to submit questions, ideas and comments for John beginning now, but 

>>> these will not be posted until July 10th.

>>>

>>> i am looking forward to your joining in on this important

discussion.

>>>

>>> David J. Rosen

>>> Special Topics Discussion List Moderator djrosen at comcast.net

>>> --------------

>>>

>>> When a group of us at World Education were preparing to write the 

>>> proposal for the funds that have supported NCSALL, we surveyed 

>>> practitioners and policy makers around the country to help us design



>>> our research agenda. Almost 500 people participated in the survey. 

>>> We asked the survey participants to send us the questions that they 

>>> wanted answered to help them improve practice in ABE, ESOL, and GED 

>>> programs. One question was at the top of the list for teachers and 

>>> second on everyone else's list. One teacher phrased it this way, 

>>> "Just when they begin to make progress, many students leave the

>>> program.   How can I keep those students long enough that they can

>>> meet their educational goals?"

>>>

>>> That question formed the basis of a three-phase study of

persistence.

>>> The first two phases are complete.  The first phase surveyed the 

>>> literature, interviewed 150 students in the six New England states, 

>>> and identified ways that programs were trying to support the 

>>> persistence of their students. The report of that first phase can be



>>> found at:

>>>

>>> <http://www.ncsall.net/fileadmin/resources/research/report12.pdf>

>>>

>>> In the second phase, 9 library literacy programs were provided with 

>>> funds to implement interventions that might help improve 

>>> persistence, and our study team observed the programs and 

>>> interviewed their staff and students. We also followed a cohort of 

>>> 180 students for 14 months.  The report of that second phase can be

found at:

>>>

>>> <http://www.mdrc.org/publications/401/overview.html>

>>>

>>> We are prepared to implement the third phase, but NCSALL no longer 

>>> has funding to begin a new research project. This next phase would 

>>> test three interventions. One would add persistence supports to 

>>> existing classroom programs, one would use a wide range of modes of 

>>> learning (in programs and through self study on-line and in other

>>> ways) that more closely match the way adults manage their learning, 

>>> and the third would combine these two approaches. I believe the 

>>> third approach is a promising way to solve the persistence problem, 

>>> as well as it can be solved.

>>>

>>> I'm looking forward to your questions, but I would also be 

>>> interested in practical ideas of how to build support to persistence



>>> and how to expand opportunities for learning.

>>>

>>> John Comings, NCSALL Director

>>> National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy Harvard



>>> Graduate School of Education

>>> 7 Appian Way

>>> Cambridge MA 02138

>>> (617) 496-0516, voice

>>> (617) 495-4811, fax

>>> (617) 335-9839, mobile

>>> john_comings at harvard.edu

>>> http://ncsall.gse.harvard.edu

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> -------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Special Topics mailing list

>>> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

>>

>> David Rosen

>> djrosen at comcast.net

>>

>>

>>

>> -------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Special Topics mailing list

>> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

>>

>> -------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Special Topics mailing list

>> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

>

> David Rosen

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>




John Comings, Director
National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy Harvard
Graduate School of Education
7 Appian Way
Cambridge MA 02138
(617) 496-0516, voice
(617) 495-4811, fax
(617) 335-9839, mobile
john_comings at harvard.edu
http://ncsall.gse.harvard.edu

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