And as I just pointed out in a longer post, these learners often lack 
auditory awareness of what they are supposed to hear--and they usually 
have great difficulty with phoneme discrimination in English. I find 
that intensive training in minimal pair discrimination, among other 
things, helps with fossilization a great deal.   Robin Lovrien Schwarz

-----Original Message-----
From: cnaamh at rcn.com
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Sent: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 3:05 PM
Subject: [SpecialTopics 284] Re: fossilization

  Lynne,

Language awareness works for fossilization too.  If you stop the 
student and
focus on one point and explain the differences or similarities, on the 
spot,
chances are the problem will go away.  When the student is ready to 
become
aware and you make the student aware, it always works.  One at a time.

Nicole B. Graves
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynne Weintraub" <lynneweintraub at hotmail.com>
To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:36 AM
Subject: [SpecialTopics 283] Re: fossilization



> Heide--the GED grammar question reminds me of a related question I've 

had

> on

> my mind for a long time. Over the years, I have run into a number of

> students who seem to be "fossilized" in their language development. 

They

> get

> to a certain point, and then they just don't seem to make any progress

> anymore in terms of pronunciation, structure, or even expanding their

> vocabulary. Has any research been done on this problem? Do you have 

any

> ideas on how to break through? I'd like to offer some hope (and

> strategies)

> to their tutors, but so far I haven't found any that are genuinely

> successful.

> Lynne Weintraub

>

>

>>From: "Wrigley, Heide" <heide at literacywork.com>

>>Reply-To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>>To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

>>Subject: [SpecialTopics 282] Re: (no subject) teaching grammar in the

>>GEDclass

>>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:41:16 -0400

>>

>>Hi, Cheryl

>>

>>I'm sorry it took me awhile to get to the grammar question. I just got

>>back from D.C. and am off to Austin in the morning, but here it goes.

>>

>>First of all, it is indeed very difficult to help students write with

>>expression and help them develop their language skills so that they 

are

>>able to write sentences that are grammatical. It is quite a challenge,

>>especially once students are able to communicate quite well orally and

>>aren't particularly keen on working on their grammar skills.

>>

>>Complicating the enterprise is the fact that at this level the

>>difficulties that students have may differ from learner to learner so

>>anything you teach to the entire class will probably bore some 

students

>>(since it's not their problem) and frustrate others (cause they are 

not

>>ready - given where they are in their language development - to absorb

>>whatever rules you are presenting). So any time there is a 

presentation

>>to the entire class on grammar at this level you may only have a few

>>students who are with you. (Cheryl, correct me if I'm wrong in your

>>case, since I am speaking in general terms and obviously don't know 

your

>>students).

>>

>>One thing that doesn't work very well, is to have students write their

>>paragraphs on the board and have everyone else point out the grammar

>>mistakes. Students generally are not particularly engaged in what 

other

>>students have written, particularly if asked to focus on form. And

>>again, some students may be able to detect errors and correct them 

(and

>>what are they learning?) while others are nowhere near ready and the

>>explanations make no sense to them - again, if some of you have had

>>great success with this strategy, let us know.

>>

>>Ok, here then are some strategies that you might try:

>>

>>1. There is a hypothesis in second language acquisition that

>>emphasize the notion of "noticing" and holds that students won't be 

able

>>to acquire accurate linguistic forms and structures, unless they first

>>notice them, that is unless they pay attention to their own language 

and

>>the language of others and say to themselves "oh, that's how it's said

>>(or not said); this is how you write it; this is what people do"  And

>>once student pay attention to these forms, it becomes easier for them 

to

>>use correct forms or edit their own writing. So one suggestion I would

>>make to build in your students a curiosity about language, an 

eagerness

>>(well, may-be not eagerness, but an interest) in seeing how language

>>works. This notion is also known as "language awareness" and it goes a

>>long way in helping students pay attention to how the language they 

use

>>in expressing their ideas is similar or different from the way other

>>people say or write things.

>> a. One way to help students build language awareness and

>>look at their own language output is to ask students to circle the 

kinds

>>of phrases or words that appear in their writing that they are not 

sure

>>about. Sometimes students a way to self-correct, but you can also work

>>with them to find better ways of expressing their ideas (sometimes 

that

>>means fixing up the grammar and other times that means rephrasing a

>>sentence and using a different structure altogether, one that the

>>student is more familiar and comfortable with).  After you help 

students

>>use fix-up strategies, you can then ask them to pay attention in their

>>reading to see if they can identify the structure in question in other

>>people's writing.

>> b. Another way is to have students read their writings into

>>a tape recorder and then listen to it again to see if it sounds right.

>>I first saw this technique used when I was up in Vancouver at the

>>Invergarry Learning Centre where Janet Isserlis taught for awhile. It

>>was amazing to see how students would read their essays and then

>>self-correct as they noticed that the language they used was awkward 

or

>>ungrammatical. The tape recorder acted as a tool for editing and

>>revision that was fun for students to use (many students I've known 

just

>>hate rewriting - in their mind it was hard enough to put pen to paper

>>and get their thoughts in writing, they don't want to prolong the

>>agony). So the tape recorder adds a new dimension (students can just

>>take turns using the machine as they finish their writings).

>>

>>Of course, building language awareness and helping students 

self-monitor

>>their writing is only one strategy to help students gain greater

>>accuracy in their writing. And self-monitoring is not a great deal of

>>help if students don't have much experience with the standard ways of

>>writing. So you may want to see if there are some common areas of

>>difficulties that your students share (subject-verb agreement; passive

>>constructions; irregular past verbs) and then teach mini-lessons that

>>zero in on those areas. While some students respond well to rules

>>because they are good at deductive thinking, others do much better 

when

>>you present patterns of language and then draw their attention to the

>>commonalities within these patterns - so that you help your students

>>abstract the grammar rules from the sentences they see - helping them 

to

>>get to the aha! moment. This approach is also known as "discovery

>>grammar".

>>

>>If particular grammar forms are new to students and they need to know

>>them because there are no simpler work-arounds, they will need some

>>guided practice in using these forms in different ways so that they

>>become internalized.  I would then include these structures in a 

grammar

>>editing check-list that students can use when they look over their own

>>writing - once again, building language awareness in the process.

>>

>>Another insight that might help you: Just correcting students each 

time

>>you see a mistake in their writing and giving them a quick explanation

>>generally doesn't work unless the student made a careless mistake. 

This

>>sort of "drive-by" grammar lesson usually doesn't stick. It is much

>>better, generally, to set some time aside, either with an individual

>>student or with the group and ask the student(s) to focus on a

>>linguistic form when they are not in the middle of writing or reading

>>their writing to others.

>>

>>Finally - and you will notice a theme here - a lesson that I learned 

as

>>an adult second language learner:  Quite a few of the mistakes that I

>>made in writing English disappeared when I spent more time thinking

>>about and discussing what it is I wanted to say and write.

>>

>>Quite often, at the intermediate levels, the language that learners 

use

>>is muddled and the sentences awkward or ungrammatical, because the

>>thinking is still fuzzy. Once a writer is clear on what it is exactly

>>(s)he wants to say, it is easier to construct sentences that are clear

>>and concise.

>>

>>I used this model of talking things through to discover what it is you

>>want to write with my students when I taught Developmental Writing and

>>for many students it did make a quite a difference.

>>

>>Others did need some structured lessons on the grammar they had missed

>>along the way.

>>

>>So no silver bullet here (ha! another cultural reference to mess with

>>the uninitiated).

>>

>>Good night all!

>>

>>Heide

>>

>>________________________________

>>

>>From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

>>[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of cheryl gentry

>>Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:01 PM

>>To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>>Subject: [SpecialTopics 261] (no subject)

>>

>>I teach GED at CRC...a prison in Norco, Calif. I have many students 

who

>>grew up speaking Spanish in the home and have difficulty with English

>>grammar. Are there any special tricks?

>

>

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