Heide: What I often hear from tutors is that they can get the student to 
produce a troublesome sound/sentence correctly (or identify errors) when the 
focus of a lesson is on that one particular aspect of language, but that it 
does not carry through in spontaneous production. Any thoughts?
Lynne Weintraub



>From: "Wrigley, Heide" <heide at literacywork.com>

>Reply-To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

>Subject: [SpecialTopics 300] Re: interlanguage, fossilization,and 

>corrective feedback

>Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 17:40:24 -0400

>

>Hi, Nicole and others who have written on issues of fossilization,

>interlanguage (and implicitly error correction), and building language

>awareness through the explicit teaching of mini-lessons.  We appreciate

>both your examples and your insights

>

>I wanted to make sure that we don't leave new teachers or those who come

>to adult ESL from other fields in the dust, so I wanted to stop for a

>minute and add a few definitions:

>

>Interlanguage:  All second language learners make language errors.

>Errors are part of language learning. We make "mistakes" as we try to

>create the target language (L2) in our minds. The language we produce in

>the early stages of proficiency is only an approximation of the target

>language, the language we are trying to learn. Since you cannot memorize

>a new language, mistakes must happen.  The language that learners use on

>their way to proficiency is often referred to as "interlanguage."  As

>students learn and acquire more language through various forms of input

>(noticing; practicing; studying, using the language in various

>contexts), they make fewer language errors and get closer to full

>proficiency. So a student's interlanguage is changing all the time,

>based on the "input" they receive (what they hear and read), and the

>"output" they are asked to produce (speaking, communicating with others;

>presenting). There is some evidence that "corrective feedback"

>judiciously applied (more on that later) can help students notice the

>errors they make, correct them, and move forward, self monitoring and

>self-correcting down the road.

>

>As several others pointed out, creating mini-lessons around some of the

>sticky points (where students keep making the same mistake over and

>over) can be really helpful, if students are indeed ready in their

>language development to understand and integrate new knowledge about

>language into their existing knowledge (schema).  You can try to explain

>how present perfect or how hypotheticals work in the beginning ESL class

>(if I had had the money, I would have bought the car), but your students

>will not be ready to take in sophisticated structures of this sort. So

>you will hear "I be here 5 years" or "I am here 5 years" or "I have 5

>years here" but probably not, "I've been here for five years"  - so

>whatever your Level 1 students say when you ask them "how long have you

>been in the United States,"  that's interlanguage.

>

>Fossilization. At any time in the learning process a student may become

>stuck in some level of interlanguage and may make the same mistakes over

>and over again - and language development does not seem to move forward.

>That's called fossilization. I've know older students who seem to have

>decided that their language skills are close enough and they aren't all

>that interested in improving their grammar. Those may be the students

>that Lynn (Weintraub was talking about). In many cases, the strategies

>we mentioned do get learners moving forward, in others, the learners

>seem so focused on communication that little noticing of form takes

>place. Perhaps asking learners straight out:

>

>Do you want to improve your English?  If so, which part of English?

>(vocabulary, comprehension, pronunciation, grammar). We can then ask

>students to identify language they are not sure about (from an audio

>tape of their story or a written piece). Or as Nicole explains below, we

>can keep trying to isolate a pattern and offer insights.

>

>Corrective feedback: This much we know: If corrective feedback (input

>focused on errors, such as "recasting" has to have any effect, it must

>be selective, judiciously applied and offered at optimal times (NOT,

>when the student is trying to tell us something important - correcting

>at that point can be really insulting and most likely make no

>difference).

>

>Language learning is extraordinarily complex and so is language teaching

>- knowing what to correct, when, why and how (and when to leave things

>alone) may be one of the most critical skills new teachers need to

>learn.

>

>Examples, anyone?

>

>Heide

>

>________________________________

>

>From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

>[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nicole Graves

>Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:12 PM

>To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>Subject: [SpecialTopics 291] Re: fossilization

>

>Hi all,

>

>Recently, once again, two examples of interlanguage development and

>fossilization jumped at me.

>

>The first one from a high level student who has been here 15 years: the

>person consistently used "privaty" for privacy.  You can see that having

>seen the word private on doors at work, at the gym, at school, etc. she

>made up the new word "privaty" applying whatever assumptions she was

>working with at the time.  I might have corrected her by repeating the

>correct form many times but I understood what she wanted to communicate.

>My way of correcting her did not work.  It was not enough.  Because

>there was no breakdown in communication, there was no need to alter the

>utterance.  This week, I stopped and pointed out the mistake directly.

>I also mentioned that other people might be confused and possibly would

>not understand.  We talked about the two words.  It was a five minutes

>direct instruction language awareness lesson.   She self-corrected after

>that for a short time.  She no longer uses the wrong word.

>

>The second one is from a man who has been here more than 6 years but

>just entered a high intermediate class.  He had a smattering of English

>when he first arrived and got a job immediately.  He continued to

>develop his oral English skills over the years but had no time to attend

>classes until now.  When I interviewed him, he said he worked in a

>factory that had 3 shifts [shiftes].  In two months [monses], he would

>change his shift [shifte].  That would allow him to come to class.  I

>asked him how he would write shift and month.  He replied: shifte and

>monte.  You can see how he had applied a plural rule he got somewhere to

>use these words in the plural.  Another quick mini-lesson: no final "e"

>in either of these words.  After a final voiceless consonnant sound, the

>plural marker "s" is also voiceless.  He also learned to self-correct

>with prompting from the teacher at first and no longer makes the

>mistake.  I do not think that he has internalized the rule but he has

>corrected 2 words that appeared "fossilized".

>

>Nicole B. Graves

>

>

>	----- Original Message -----

>	From: Moira.Taylor at domino1.cuny.edu

>	To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>	Cc: specialtopics at nifl.gov ; specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

>	Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:22 AM

>	Subject: [SpecialTopics 286] Re: fossilization

>

>

>	Hi all -

>

>	I've been reading all week, and now how some time to respond.  I

>hope the following is useful.

>

>	First of all, I totally agree awareness is a critical element

>for working on fossilization issues.

>

>	And then, just to put another work into the mix, I was just

>reading a chapter (Chapter 9) in Ilona Leki's book "Understanding ESL

>Writers."  She writes about an interlanguage (an unstable language

>developed during the language learning process).   The student is on

>his/her way to developing the correct L2 form by receiving input, but

>this student stresses and ignores rules based on input.  For example,

>s/he may have learned about 3 person "S" and then overgeneralize the

>rule to modal forms (She cans...)  Eventually, s/he will stop as s/he

>practices more.

>

>	I'm simplifying, but what Leki says at the end of all this is:

>"Normally, as language learners continue recieving input from the target

>language, their interlanguage reshapes itself in increasing conformity

>to the L2.  For reasons not completly understoond, however, certain

>interlanguage forms become fixed, or folssilized, and no amount of input

>seems to be able to induce a re-analysis of the fossilized form to put

>it more in line with the L2...Fossilized interlanguage forms are

>particularly difficult to alter, possibly because the learner is for

>whaterver reason unmotivated to identify completely with the target

>discours community."

>

>	She has more to say about what to do (this particular chapter is

>about correcting sentence level errors - what, how, why).  Worth a read

>I think.

>

>	Moira Taylor

>

>	Moira Taylor

>	CUNY Adult Literacy Program

>	101 West 31st St., Room 704

>	New York, NY 10001

>	Tel: 212 652 2883

>	Fax: 646 344 7329

>	www.literacy.cuny.edu

>

>

>

>"Nicole Graves" <cnaamh at rcn.com>

>Sent by: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

>04/12/2007 04:05 PM

>Please respond to specialtopics

>

>         To:        <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

>         cc:

>         Subject:        [SpecialTopics 284] Re: fossilization

>

>

>

>	Lynne,

>

>	Language awareness works for fossilization too.  If you stop the

>student and

>	focus on one point and explain the differences or similarities,

>on the spot,

>	chances are the problem will go away.  When the student is ready

>to become

>	aware and you make the student aware, it always works.  One at a

>time.

>

>	Nicole B. Graves

>	----- Original Message -----

>	From: "Lynne Weintraub" <lynneweintraub at hotmail.com>

>	To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

>	Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:36 AM

>	Subject: [SpecialTopics 283] Re: fossilization

>

>

>	> Heide--the GED grammar question reminds me of a related

>question I've had

>	> on

>	> my mind for a long time. Over the years, I have run into a

>number of

>	> students who seem to be "fossilized" in their language

>development. They

>	> get

>	> to a certain point, and then they just don't seem to make any

>progress

>	> anymore in terms of pronunciation, structure, or even

>expanding their

>	> vocabulary. Has any research been done on this problem? Do you

>have any

>	> ideas on how to break through? I'd like to offer some hope

>(and

>	> strategies)

>	> to their tutors, but so far I haven't found any that are

>genuinely

>	> successful.

>	> Lynne Weintraub

>	>

>	>

>	>>From: "Wrigley, Heide" <heide at literacywork.com>

>	>>Reply-To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>	>>To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

>	>>Subject: [SpecialTopics 282] Re: (no subject) teaching grammar

>in the

>	>>GEDclass

>	>>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:41:16 -0400

>	>>

>	>>Hi, Cheryl

>	>>

>	>>I'm sorry it took me awhile to get to the grammar question. I

>just got

>	>>back from D.C. and am off to Austin in the morning, but here

>it goes.

>	>>

>	>>First of all, it is indeed very difficult to help students

>write with

>	>>expression and help them develop their language skills so that

>they are

>	>>able to write sentences that are grammatical. It is quite a

>challenge,

>	>>especially once students are able to communicate quite well

>orally and

>	>>aren't particularly keen on working on their grammar skills.

>	>>

>	>>Complicating the enterprise is the fact that at this level the

>	>>difficulties that students have may differ from learner to

>learner so

>	>>anything you teach to the entire class will probably bore some

>students

>	>>(since it's not their problem) and frustrate others (cause

>they are not

>	>>ready - given where they are in their language development -

>to absorb

>	>>whatever rules you are presenting). So any time there is a

>presentation

>	>>to the entire class on grammar at this level you may only have

>a few

>	>>students who are with you. (Cheryl, correct me if I'm wrong in

>your

>	>>case, since I am speaking in general terms and obviously don't

>know your

>	>>students).

>	>>

>	>>One thing that doesn't work very well, is to have students

>write their

>	>>paragraphs on the board and have everyone else point out the

>grammar

>	>>mistakes. Students generally are not particularly engaged in

>what other

>	>>students have written, particularly if asked to focus on form.

>And

>	>>again, some students may be able to detect errors and correct

>them (and

>	>>what are they learning?) while others are nowhere near ready

>and the

>	>>explanations make no sense to them - again, if some of you

>have had

>	>>great success with this strategy, let us know.

>	>>

>	>>Ok, here then are some strategies that you might try:

>	>>

>	>>1. There is a hypothesis in second language acquisition that

>	>>emphasize the notion of "noticing" and holds that students

>won't be able

>	>>to acquire accurate linguistic forms and structures, unless

>they first

>	>>notice them, that is unless they pay attention to their own

>language and

>	>>the language of others and say to themselves "oh, that's how

>it's said

>	>>(or not said); this is how you write it; this is what people

>do"  And

>	>>once student pay attention to these forms, it becomes easier

>for them to

>	>>use correct forms or edit their own writing. So one suggestion

>I would

>	>>make to build in your students a curiosity about language, an

>eagerness

>	>>(well, may-be not eagerness, but an interest) in seeing how

>language

>	>>works. This notion is also known as "language awareness" and

>it goes a

>	>>long way in helping students pay attention to how the language

>they use

>	>>in expressing their ideas is similar or different from the way

>other

>	>>people say or write things.

>	>> a. One way to help students build language awareness and

>	>>look at their own language output is to ask students to circle

>the kinds

>	>>of phrases or words that appear in their writing that they are

>not sure

>	>>about. Sometimes students a way to self-correct, but you can

>also work

>	>>with them to find better ways of expressing their ideas

>(sometimes that

>	>>means fixing up the grammar and other times that means

>rephrasing a

>	>>sentence and using a different structure altogether, one that

>the

>	>>student is more familiar and comfortable with).  After you

>help students

>	>>use fix-up strategies, you can then ask them to pay attention

>in their

>	>>reading to see if they can identify the structure in question

>in other

>	>>people's writing.

>	>> b. Another way is to have students read their writings into

>	>>a tape recorder and then listen to it again to see if it

>sounds right.

>	>>I first saw this technique used when I was up in Vancouver at

>the

>	>>Invergarry Learning Centre where Janet Isserlis taught for

>awhile. It

>	>>was amazing to see how students would read their essays and

>then

>	>>self-correct as they noticed that the language they used was

>awkward or

>	>>ungrammatical. The tape recorder acted as a tool for editing

>and

>	>>revision that was fun for students to use (many students I've

>known just

>	>>hate rewriting - in their mind it was hard enough to put pen

>to paper

>	>>and get their thoughts in writing, they don't want to prolong

>the

>	>>agony). So the tape recorder adds a new dimension (students

>can just

>	>>take turns using the machine as they finish their writings).

>	>>

>	>>Of course, building language awareness and helping students

>self-monitor

>	>>their writing is only one strategy to help students gain

>greater

>	>>accuracy in their writing. And self-monitoring is not a great

>deal of

>	>>help if students don't have much experience with the standard

>ways of

>	>>writing. So you may want to see if there are some common areas

>of

>	>>difficulties that your students share (subject-verb agreement;

>passive

>	>>constructions; irregular past verbs) and then teach

>mini-lessons that

>	>>zero in on those areas. While some students respond well to

>rules

>	>>because they are good at deductive thinking, others do much

>better when

>	>>you present patterns of language and then draw their attention

>to the

>	>>commonalities within these patterns - so that you help your

>students

>	>>abstract the grammar rules from the sentences they see -

>helping them to

>	>>get to the aha! moment. This approach is also known as

>"discovery

>	>>grammar".

>	>>

>	>>If particular grammar forms are new to students and they need

>to know

>	>>them because there are no simpler work-arounds, they will need

>some

>	>>guided practice in using these forms in different ways so that

>they

>	>>become internalized.  I would then include these structures in

>a grammar

>	>>editing check-list that students can use when they look over

>their own

>	>>writing - once again, building language awareness in the

>process.

>	>>

>	>>Another insight that might help you: Just correcting students

>each time

>	>>you see a mistake in their writing and giving them a quick

>explanation

>	>>generally doesn't work unless the student made a careless

>mistake. This

>	>>sort of "drive-by" grammar lesson usually doesn't stick. It is

>much

>	>>better, generally, to set some time aside, either with an

>individual

>	>>student or with the group and ask the student(s) to focus on a

>	>>linguistic form when they are not in the middle of writing or

>reading

>	>>their writing to others.

>	>>

>	>>Finally - and you will notice a theme here - a lesson that I

>learned as

>	>>an adult second language learner:  Quite a few of the mistakes

>that I

>	>>made in writing English disappeared when I spent more time

>thinking

>	>>about and discussing what it is I wanted to say and write.

>	>>

>	>>Quite often, at the intermediate levels, the language that

>learners use

>	>>is muddled and the sentences awkward or ungrammatical, because

>the

>	>>thinking is still fuzzy. Once a writer is clear on what it is

>exactly

>	>>(s)he wants to say, it is easier to construct sentences that

>are clear

>	>>and concise.

>	>>

>	>>I used this model of talking things through to discover what

>it is you

>	>>want to write with my students when I taught Developmental

>Writing and

>	>>for many students it did make a quite a difference.

>	>>

>	>>Others did need some structured lessons on the grammar they

>had missed

>	>>along the way.

>	>>

>	>>So no silver bullet here (ha! another cultural reference to

>mess with

>	>>the uninitiated).

>	>>

>	>>Good night all!

>	>>

>	>>Heide

>	>>

>	>>________________________________

>	>>

>	>>From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

>	>>[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of cheryl

>gentry

>	>>Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:01 PM

>	>>To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>	>>Subject: [SpecialTopics 261] (no subject)

>	>>

>	>>I teach GED at CRC...a prison in Norco, Calif. I have many

>students who

>	>>grew up speaking Spanish in the home and have difficulty with

>English

>	>>grammar. Are there any special tricks?

>	>

>	>

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