Jane-- I am traveling again and do not have names and titles at 
hand--but as I just noted in another posting , much of my information 
on this comes from speech pathology and from neuroscience.   Also, I do 
a lot of reading of international researchers on dyslexia in many 
languages. ( Ellis from Wales,  Lytenning from Finland, Baddely and 
Gathercole from England among, Hu, Chong and others doing work on 
Chinese).  Many of these have examined the role of something called 
phonological memory and its role in language acquisition.  ( this is a 
very short term memory for speech sounds) .  This research has 
indicated that when the phonological memory is weak oral/aural skills 
in languaeg will be weak.  I hypothesized that therefore if PM is 
impacted by poor auditory discrimination ( what Marilyn Jager Adams, 
researcher in reading, calls speech discrimination) PM will be poor and 
therefore language acquisition will be poor.  Thus if we strengthen 
speech discrimination by helping learners focus on key sounds they have 
normal difficulty hearing because adult brains do not process sound as 
young brains do,  we should see better learning all around.

I did a sort of pilot study in Texas last year on phonological skills 
of adult ESOL learners (available at the website of TCALL a  clearning 
house at Texas  A & M) and found that no matter the education level, 
language background, or length  of exposure to English as adult 
learners, the learners could not repeat sentences of 4 or 5 words or 
longer completely accurately--something any native speaker can do 
readily up to 18 or 20 words.  This reinforced my belief that these 
learners do not hear sounds very accurately and therefore are not sure 
what the actrual words and word boundaries are in a stream of speech.   
I did extensive minimal pair training with my ESL college students in 
DC a decade ago and they reported themselves that their comprehension 
of spoken English soared--certainly I saw remarkable improvement in 
their spelling and grammar as they were able to discriminate sounds 
that constitute grammar in speech.

As my earlier post says, my colleague the speech pathologist is 
unimpressed with my ideas because they are so basic to speech pathology 
that she is shocked ESL is not aware of the value of minimal pair drill 
and the reasons that it is important to do this kind of auditory 
training.

Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: janeaddeo at comcast.net
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [SpecialTopics 307] Re: (no subject) teaching grammar in the 
GED class

Robin,
 
Thank you so much for your enlightening comments regarding "auditory 
attention and auditory input."
 
If possible, could you please share citations on these topics from your 
research.  Is it research that you conducted?
 
Thanks again for your comments.
 
Jane
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com


> Thank you Heide for the great explanation of why correction does not

> always help and for pointing out the need for language awareness. 

This

> is a topic I address often from two perspectives. The first is that 

of

> the non-literate learner-- who has little understanding of the

> structure of language and for whom grammar is a mystery. I have

> observed very low level ESOL classes of non- or preliterate learners

> where teachers were attempting to explain grammar or mistakes by 

using

> grammar and the learners were completely mystified.

>

> One teacher with whom I was discussing this problem recently 

expressed

> frustration because the structure she was trying to explain in 

English

> exists in Spanish and the learner in question just couldn't seem to 

get

> that. But the teacher herself finally had the insight that since that

> learner had almost no education in Spanish either, just the fact of

> translating the structure or referring to it in the native language

> doesn't mean the learner will understand it. (and then of course for

> many teachers there is the issue that learners with unwritten 

languages

> will not have any access to the notions of grammar nor the words for 

it

> in their language---they do not exist. )

>

> The second perspective is of auditory attention to grammar-- a 

teacher

> recently gave me an example of a learner who had "fossilized" grammar

> and never had subject verb agreement in the simple present tense ( He

> say, she talk, etc. ) One day recently the teacher automatically

> corrected this student when she said "he look" and the student was

> stunned. She asked, " What did you just say? Did you say LOOKS???"

> and the teacher said yes, The student asked, " Do you mean you have

> always been saying LOOKS with a final /s/ and I never heard it??" And

> the teacher said, of course, YES!

>

> This is a small illustration of the need to bring many adult 

learners'

> attention to the auditory details they do not know they should hear.

> Since we know that literacy skills and language skills transfer at 

the

> level at which they are developed in first language, if a learner 

does

> not know HOW verbs agree in his or her own language or how plurals 

are

> made or how present past and future are indicated, why would that

> learner be listening for how it is in English. My research tells me

> that accurate auditory input is required for the brain to build up a

> store of sounds, words, strings of words ( such as idioms) and 

grammar

> strings--but if the auditory input is not ac curate, the stored up

> information is not accurate. Hence we need to help learners pay

> attention auditorily to details they are not hearing.

>

> But, as Heide points out, this will only be useful if the learner is 

at

> the language learning stage where she or he can make sense of it.

> Language acquisition stages are yet another piece of the picture 

which

> is not well known in adult ESOL.

>

> Robin Lovrien Schwarz

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: heide at literacywork.com

> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

> Sent: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:41 PM

> Subject: [SpecialTopics 282] Re: (no subject) teaching grammar in the

> GED class

>

> Hi, Cheryl

>

>

>

> I’m sorry it took me awhile to get to the grammar question. I just 

got

> back from D.C. and am off to Austin in the morning, but here it goes.

>

>

>

> First of all, it is indeed very difficult to help students write with

> expression and help them develop their language skills so that they 

are

> able to write sentences that are grammatical. It is quite a 

challenge,

> especially once students are able to communicate quite well orally 

and

> aren’t particularly keen on working on their grammar skills.

>

>

>

> Complicating the enterprise is the fact that at this level the

> difficulties that students have may differ from learner to learner so

> anything you teach to the entire class will probably bore some 

students

> (since it’s not their problem) and frustrate others (cause they are 

not

> ready - given where they are in their language development – to 

absorb

> whatever rules you are presenting). So any time there is a 

presentation

> to the entire class on grammar at this level you may only have a few

> students who are with you. (Cheryl, correct me if I’m wrong in your

> case, since I am speaking in general terms and obviously don’t know

> your students).

>

>

>

> One thing that doesn’t work very well, is to have students write 

their

> paragraphs on the board and have everyone else point out the grammar

> mistakes. Students generally are not particularly engaged in what 

other

> students have written, particularly if asked to focus on form. And

> again, some students may be able to detect errors and correct them 

(and

> what are they learning?) while others are nowhere near ready and the

> explanations make no sense to them – again, if some of you have had

> great success with this strategy, let us know.

>

>

>

> Ok, here then are some strategies that you might try:

>

>

>

> * There is a hypothesis in second language acquisition that emphasize

> the notion of “noticing” and holds that students won’t be able to

> acquire accurate linguistic forms and structures, unless they first

> notice them, that is unless they pay attention to their own language

> and the language of others and say to themselves “oh, that’s how it’s

> said (or not said); this is how you write it; this is what people do”

> And once student pay attention to these forms, it becomes easier for

> them to use correct forms or edit their own writing. So one 

suggestion

> I would make to build in your students a curiosity about language, an

> eagerness (well, may-be not eagerness, but an interest) in seeing how

> language works. This notion is also known as “language awareness” and

> it goes a long way in helping students pay attention to how the

> language they use in expressing their ideas is similar or different

> from the way other people say or write things .

> * One way to help students build language awareness and look at their

> own language output is to ask students to circle the kinds of phrases

> or words that appear in their writing that they are not sure about.

> Sometimes students a way to self-correct, but you can also work with

> them to find better ways of expressing their ideas (sometimes that

> means fixing up the grammar and other times that means rephrasing a

> sentence and using a different structure altogether, one that the

> student is more familiar and comfortable with). After you help

> students use fix-up strategies, you can then ask them to pay 

attention

> in their reading to see if they can identify the structure in 

question

> in other people’s writing.

> * Another way is to have students read their writings into a tape

> recorder and then listen to it again to see if it sounds right. I 

first

> saw this technique used when I was up in Vancouver at the Invergarry

> Learning Centre where Janet Isserlis taught for awhile. It was 

amazing

> to see how students would read their essays and then self-correct as

> they noticed that the language they used was awkward or 

ungrammatical.

> The tape recorder acted as a tool for editing and revision that was 

fun

> for students to use (many students I’ve known just hate rewriting – 

in

> their mind it was hard enough to put pen to paper and get their

> thoughts in writing, they don’t want to prolong the agony). So the 

tape

> recorder adds a new dimension (students can just take turns using the

> machine as they finish their writings).

>

>

> Of course, building language awareness and helping students

> self-monitor their writing is only one strategy to help students gain

> greater accuracy in their writing. And self-monitoring is not a great

> deal of help if students don’t have much experience with the standard

> ways of writing. So you may want to see if there are some common 

areas

> of difficulties that your students share (subject-verb agreement;

> passive constructions; irregular past verbs) and then teach

> mini-lessons that zero in on those areas. While some students respond

> well to rules because they are good at deductive thinking, others do

> much better when you present patterns of language and then draw their

> attention to the commonalities within these patterns – so that you 

help

> your students abstract the grammar rules from the sentences they see 

–

> helping them to get to the aha! moment. This approach is also known 

as

> “discovery grammar”.

>

>

>

> If particular grammar forms are new to students and they need to know

> them because there are no simpler work-arounds, they will need some

&g t; guided practice in using these forms in different ways so that 
they

> become internalized. I would then include these structures in a 

grammar

> editing check-list that students can use when they look over their 

own

> writing – once again, building language awareness in the process.

>

>

>

> Another insight that might help you: Just correcting students each

> time you see a mistake in their writing and giving them a quick

> explanation generally doesn’t work unless the student made a careless

> mistake. This sort of “drive-by” grammar lesson usually doesn’t 

stick.

> It is much better, generally, to set some time aside, either with an

> individual student or with the group and ask the student(s) to focus 

on

> a linguistic form when they are not in the middle of writing or 

reading

> their writing to others.

>

>

>

> Finally – and you will notice a theme here – a lesson that I learned

> as an adult second language learner: Quite a few of the mistakes that

> I made in writing English disappeared when I spent more time thinking

> about and discussing what it is I wanted to say and write.

>

>

>

> Quite often, at the intermediate levels, the language that learners

> use is muddled and the sentences awkward or ungrammatical, because 

the

> thinking is still fuzzy. Once a writer is clear on what it is exactly

> (s)he wants to say, it is easier to construct sentences that are 

clear

> and concise.

>

>

>

> I used this model of talking things through to discover what it is 

you

> want to write with my students when I taught Developmental Writing 

and

> for many students it did make a quite a difference.

>

>

>

> Others did need some structured lessons on the grammar they had 

missed

> al ong the way.

>

>

>

> So no silver bullet here (ha! another cultural reference to mess with

> the uninitiated).

>

>

>

> Good night all!

>

>

>

> Heide

>

>

>

> --------

>

> From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of cheryl gentry

> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:01 PM

> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

> Subject: [SpecialTopics 261] (no subject)

>

>

>

>

> I teach GED at CRC...a prison in Norco, Calif. I have many students

> who grew up speaking Spanish in the home and have difficulty with

> English grammar. Are there any special tricks?

>

>

>

>

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