In response to Will Fagan's comment regarding an assessment at the time
of the learners "graduation" ("integration" into the community?), I
think it is a worthwhile to have as a topic exploring both (1)
assessments of the learner before and after instruction and (2) what
degree of English language functioning is sufficient for learners to
continue developing language proficiency on their own.   The federally
funded ESL assistance provided through programs, like the Refugee
Resettlement Program, expect the ESL activities it funds to focus on
economic self-sufficiency and on the learner's ability to function in
the workplace.  Those who contract with resettlement providers struggle
with knowing (i) what expectations to have of ESL activities and (ii)
what results are sufficient.  

-----Original Message-----
From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Will Fagan
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:42 PM
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: [SpecialTopics 552] Re: Summary of Special Topics discussion so
far

I guess it is all of the above (or below).
In addition to the points you raise, we can also raise the  
implications for when
a learner "graduates" from a literacy/education program and has not
reached a level of independence. It is certainly much more than  
assessment,
and any assessment would have to be very complex. A pencil and paper
test would never answer the question.
Perhaps,  an assessment type question, is whether the program certifies
the learner - that is, does having "gone through" the program suffice  
for the
learner to have reached the level of independence that enables him/her
to be a continuing and active learner?
As I mentioned earlier, I have seen a  number of learners (who  
themselves)
believe they are now "literate" or have reached a stage that put them in
the "literate"  versus the "low-literacy" camp, yet they cannot  
operate independently
in critically reading information, asking critical questions,  
discussion using logic,
crafting their  ideas/concerns/arguments on paper to impact society.
Will


On 23-Aug-07, at 2:07 PM, David J. Rosen wrote:


> Hello Will,

>

> I need some clarification:

>

> Are you asking an assessment question or are you also asking a set of

> other questions about how teachers should be trained, how curriculum

> should be designed, how programs should be designed to support

> learners becoming critical and independent readers? Is there a

> research literature you have in mind, or some theoretical writings?

> Or are you just asking the assessment question: how do we know when

> adult learners reach the "critical/independent" state of literacy so

> they can carry out reading and writing on their own?  I am trying to

> understand if this is one question, that could be addressed on the

> assessment discussion list, or if you are getting at a  set of

> questions which might better be addressed here. The more you can tell

> us about this, the better we will understand what you are getting at.

>

> Thanks.

>

> David J. Rosen

> Special Topics Discussion Moderator

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

> On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:52 AM, Will Fagan wrote:

>

>> The topic I suggested is not included.

>> How do we know that the learners we work with have reached the

>> "critical/independent" stage of literacy where they can stand on

>> their own and continue their learning?

>> I have  seen many learners "graduate" from literacy programs but

>> are still limited and "dependent" (in that they must rely on

>> support from others) in carrying out literacy tasks.

>> I believe if we do not enable learners to reach this stage, we lose

>> a lot of good leadership.

>> At a certain time the baby robin no longer needs the confines of

>> the nest or the support of its mother in moving out into the world

>> on its own, to eventually do (and maybe do better) what the parent

>> robins do. When have learners reached this stage? This  applies to

>> corrections learners as well as to others. Recidivism depends a lot

>> on being independent versus being dependent on or influenced by

>> others. I would think literacy must play some role here.

>>

>>

>>

>> On 23-Aug-07, at 9:37 AM, David J. Rosen wrote:

>>

>>> Special Topics Colleagues,

>>>

>>> Katrina Hinson suggested that a summary of the discussion so far

>>> would be helpful.  You'll find one below.

>>>

>>> As you look at the summary, consider:  Are there any other topics

>>> that should be added? Are there other guests who you would like to

>>> suggest? Would you like more information/clarification about what

>>> is already listed (possibly my summary distorted the intent of

>>> what someone wrote -- if so, let us know, or provide amplification.)

>>>

>>> Janet Isserlis suggested that this discussion list would be a good

>>> place for what I am calling "synergistic" discussions -- bold

>>> combinations of topics.  If you have ideas for such synergy

>>> topics, let us know.

>>>

>>> David J. Rosen

>>> djrosen at comcast.net

>>>

>>> 								Topics

and Possible Guests

>>>

>>> Immigration

>>> *      Local immigration policies and how they impact students and

>>> teachers of Adult Education

>>> *      The impact of the Bush administration's Homeland Security

>>> plans to enforce current immigration laws and the development of a

>>> national plan for citizenship education. See http://

>>> www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/08/20070810.html

>>> *       Incarcerated immigrants: how many participate in ABE

>>> classes, and the long-term results for those who participate and

>>> those who do not (this could include a discussion of why some do

>>> not participate and how available these classes are to

>>> incarcerated immigrants, especially illegal immigrants)

>>>

>>> *      Qualitative studies of immigrants pursuing ABE and ESOL

>>> education; perspectives of students, teachers and administration

>>> *      Collaborative efforts between state and federal agencies

>>> and non-profits to expand the human rights of immigrants, women,

>>> and low income pursuing education and self-improvement

>>> *      Immigrant integration and the role that language and

>>> literacy development can play in that goal - perhaps with a

>>> strong focus on what it takes to not only support immigrants

>>> making a new life in the US but how we as a society can do to

>>> support communities that have a hard time absorbing large numbers

>>> of newcomers - and what we in adult education can do so we

>>> don't pit the different kinds of needs of native born and foreign-

>>> born citizens/residents against each other.

>>>

>>> Possible Guests

>>> *      Professionals in the field to discuss their perspectives of

>>> immigrants working towards assimilation, citizenship and language

>>> skills

>>>

>>> Technology

>>> *     Technological literacy: who has it, who doesn't, how we

>>> can improve it

>>> *     Gender differences in technological pedagogy (for example,

>>> is there a difference between the way males and females teach

>>> basic technical skills?  Do men and women have different learning

>>> styles when it comes to technology?  How does this affect students?)

>>> *     What is being done around the US to better use educational

>>> technologies to provide more and better learning opportunities for

>>> adults?

>>>

>>> Possible Guests

>>> *      Teachers in the field of technological literacy

>>> *      People who are using technologies in creative ways.

>>>

>>>

>>> Corrections Education/Ex offender re-entry

>>> (6 people mentioned this topic as of 8/22)

>>> *    Helping ex-offenders transition to productive lives has

>>> tremendous implications for our society.  We are starting a new

>>> program and could benefit from learning from others who are

>>> already running successful programs.

>>> *    Transition programs for ex-offenders who studied in jail/

>>> prison and need to connect to educational opportunities in the

>>> community.. Too many ex-offenders leave prison and are faced with

>>> immediate housing and employment needs, and have no easy access to

>>> complete their studies. Access to educational services becomes a

>>> way to reduce recidivism.

>>> *    Literacy Volunteers of Westchester County is currently

>>> working on a Corrections Education version for their bilingual low-

>>> literate EL/Civics curriculum (Civics for Immigrants: From Native

>>> Language to English Literacy) and it is interesting to see what

>>> changes need to be made in language, content, and tasks.  I would

>>> be curious about how others see the differences, specifically with

>>> regard to civics topics and tasks.

>>> *    I deal with the education of inmates in our local jail - some

>>> of whom are awaiting transfer to the penitentiary.  I am

>>> particularly interested in how other programs are funded, as ours

>>> is volunteer instruction and jail paid testing for the GED.  Also,

>>> interested in approaches for special education for those whose

>>> services have not existed for many years.

>>>

>>> Possible Guests

>>> * Administrators in the criminal justice system and law officers

>>> who will openly discuss communication efforts and issues from

>>> their perspectives and interactions

>>> * I have suggested two potential "panelists" to David who have

>>> recently completed doctoral dissertations that involved interviews

>>> with incarcerated individuals. While not focused specifically on

>>> literacy - their research does give voice to the views of students

>>> from whom we do not hear often if at all (i.e. actually

>>> incarcerated individuals). One paper focused on perceptions about

>>> corrections education, and the other about K-12 experiences of

>>> drop-outs who are now incarcerated -- each with a view to

>>> informing current educators about potential efforts to deter

>>> current students from such future ends.

>>> * John Linton, former correctional educator and now Director of

>>> Correctional Education for the U.S. Department of Education

>>> * Bill Muth, former Director of Education for the Federal Bureau

>>> of Prisons and currently a professor of correctional education at

>>> Virginia Commonwealth University

>>> * Steve Steurer, former correctional educator and now Executive

>>> Director of the Correctional Education Association

>>> * Carolyn Buser, former director of correctional education and

>>> current adult education specialist at the U.S. Department of

>>> Education who has a wealth of knowledge about how the adult

>>> education system and correctional education system works together.

>>> * John Nally, director of CE in Indiana who is Chair of the

>>> Council of Directors of CE

>>>

>>> Work-related Literacy/Basic Skills

>>> * Work-related basic skills: What is now being done around the US

>>> and world (at national, state, and local levels) to help job

>>> seekers and incumbent develop the basic skills and other career

>>> tools (e.g., technical knowledge, credentials, connections, etc.)

>>> to move into and succeed in rewarding jobs? (Possible guests: In

>>> addition to US-based people, we might invite representatives of

>>> New Zealand, the UK, and Canada to participate.)

>>> * Looking at workforce education programs that are partnerships

>>> between businesses and local literacy organizations: the structure

>>> of the program, curriculum and assessments

>>>

>>> Family-related Literacy/Basic Skills

>>> * Family-related basic skills: What is now being done around the

>>> US and world (at national, state, and local levels) to help adults

>>> develop the basic skills and other life tools they need to help

>>> their families deal with educational, health, financial, housing,

>>> and other needs? (Possible guests: People who are thinking outside

>>> the box on what constitutes "family literacy.")

>>>

>>> Civics-related Literacy/Basic Skills

>>> * Civics-related basic skills: What is now being done around the

>>> US and world (at national, state, and local levels) to help adults

>>> develop the basic skills and other life tools they need to

>>> participate actively as community members and citizens?  (Possible

>>> guests: People who are thinking outside the box on what

>>> constitutes civic literacy/citizenship education.)

>>>

>>> Leadership

>>> * What is being done to build leadership for adult education

>>> among stakeholder groups (e.g., employers; populations with low

>>> levels of reading skills, language fluency, and educational

>>> attainment; criminal justice agencies; etc.) who theoretically

>>> should have an interest in this field but who have largely been

>>> silent and invisible?  (Possible guests: critical thinkers in this

>>> area. Maybe tie this in with the state policy topic below.)

>>> * Adult learner leadership: What is being done to promote/develop

>>> the leadership capacities of adult learners?  Why is it important

>>> to do so?  What are ways of doing so?  What are challenges and

>>> resources for doing so?  (Possible guests: Representatives of

>>> national, state and local adult learner groups and the

>>> practitioners they work with.)

>>>

>>> Policy

>>> * State policy: What are states doing to build adult learning

>>> systems that prepare adults for work, family, and civic

>>> responsibilities?  (Possible guests: Representatives of some

>>> states which have shown innovation and commitment regarding adult

>>> education policy.)

>>>

>>> Advocacy and Public Awareness

>>> * How to encourage adult learners to advocate for education for

>>> themselves and others including those for whom the GED is not a

>>> viable goal.

>>> * What do the public, donors, and elected officials REALLY need

>>> to know about the impact of low-level literacy skills in our

>>> country so that professionals get the help that they need to meet

>>> service demands?  What is essential information we should be

>>> collecting or calculating?  We have to appeal to different

>>> audiences:  What messages are attractive to the general public vs

>>> donors vs elected officials?

>>> * How do we grab the attention of the general tax-paying

>>> population and major funding organizations to the critical need of

>>> literacy programs.  I have  seen the extensive research and

>>> results but not seen strategies to engage the general and specific

>>> populations.

>>> * There was a big push in the wake of the 2000 National Literacy

>>> Summit, From the Margins to the Mainstream, an Action Agenda for

>>> Literacy.  Seven years later we are still very clearly at the

>>> margins.  Was it the wrong agenda?  In a nutshell, the agenda was

>>> three pronged.

>>>

>>> Priority 1- Resources

>>> Priority 2- Access

>>> Priority 3- Quality

>>>

>>> Could we use the discussion list to revisit and reformulate an

>>> Action Agenda?  As a first thought, I would think that Priority 1

>>> would be answering the following question:  How do we make a

>>> compelling case to the general public, the media, the politicians,

>>> and policy makers that the achievement of universal adult literacy

>>> (in English) is central to the preservation of our nation's

>>> founding principles as well as our social and economic well being?

>>>

>>> Possible Guests

>>> *      People with influence who have the ability to be

>>> advocates...or people who are adversarial who also have influence.

>>> We could learn from those who are anti.

>>>

>>> System Building

>>> * In a time of limited resources, are adult educators retreating

>>> from building effective learning systems or are we finding new

>>> ways and resources to provide more and better quality services?

>>> (Possible guests: Critical thinkers in this area. Maybe tie this

>>> in with the state policy topic above.)

>>> * What is the essence of the US ABE/ESOL system (what works and

>>> what doesn't?) and how does it compare to systems in other

>>> countries?

>>>

>>> For example, In the U.S. the adult education system is somewhat

>>> (ok a lot) separate from the job training and workforce

>>> development system making it difficult to implement integrated

>>> models that combine education and training. How are other

>>> countries managing to embed language and literacy development into

>>> services designed to help adults get jobs with a future.

>>>

>>> Another example, here in the U.S., family literacy focuses on

>>> teaching language and literacy skills in the context of life

>>> skills and helping parents understand the U.S. school system so

>>> they can help their children succeed. Other models (in the UK and

>>> some in Canada), help parents who've had few opportunities for

>>> schooling acquire the content knowledge their kids are learning

>>> (math, social science, geography, history) so that when there are

>>> questions the child has (about school, homework, tests), the

>>> parents can answer them with authority. I can see this system

>>> meshing nicely with what the GED is trying to do but if would be

>>> good to hear from experts in other countries about their insights

>>> into what has worked and what hasn't.

>>>

>>> Learning Disabilities (styles, disorders, differences)

>>> * We know that students drop out of high school for a variety of

>>> reasons. How many drop out because they do not fit into the

>>> standard  educational model? One respondent noted that many adult

>>> learners do not do well in traditional test-taking situations.

>>> Would they do better with alternative assessments? Should we

>>> educate them using the same model     in which they were

>>> previously unsuccessful? How many are AD/HD? How many have what a

>>> psychologist my describe as a "Anti-Social Personality Disorder"?

>>> Should we continue to try to put them in a one-size-fits-all

>>> learning situation? Is it even practical, given the limited adult

>>> education resources,  to try to assess differences beyond literacy

>>> levels?

>>>

>>> Writing

>>> * How to develop/encourage/support independent/critical readers

>>> and writers. At what point do/can adult learners "leave the nest"

>>> and challenge ideas on their own? Is that not the epitome of

>>> literacy?

>>>

>>> Assessment

>>> * Assessment as a way to capture what counts and giving learners

>>> the opportunity to demonstrate knowledge and skills in ways that

>>> reflect real life tasks. Have we all just gotten so beaten up by

>>> the required standardized testing that there is no room or desire

>>> to consider alternatives?

>>>

>>> Other Possible Guests

>>> * Local and national policy makers willing to discuss impact of

>>> literacy issues and plans for reform

>>>

>>> 						In the future,

emphasize:

>>>

>>> * Discussion of student profiles and specific, personal,

>>> qualitative anecdotes about students, ESOL and ABE teachers

>>> * More focus on specific students, classes, and student

>>> populations (such as immigrants, adults, K-3, 4-6, postsecondary,

>>> etc.) Look from the ground up and not the top down in order to

>>> really make sense of the issues related to literacy and THEN apply

>>> the information to the level used by policy makers and  

>>> administrators

>>> * More links to national and local studies with follow up

>>> discussions (but not too many studies at one time)

>>> * Further explanation and exploration of related statistics and

>>> how these impact daily interactions between students and teachers

>>> in Adult Ed and K-12

>>>

>>> * Simultaneous unification of the ABE and Literacy field.  We all

>>> came together when ABE was on the verge of being cut.  We need to

>>> be proactive (not that I have been) not reactive.

>>>

>>> 							

>>> 						Other Comments

>>>

>>> * Use live chatting instead of asynchronous text discussions

>>> * Combine topics (e.g. corrections, data and advocacy -

>>> including learners as advocates) using the Special Topics list for

>>> synergistic discussions

>>> * Begin some discussions "ourselves" before inviting guests. It

>>> could be that with 'just us' questions will bubble up that we can

>>> then seek responses to/input from others with particular expertise?

>>> * Slow down and really pace ourselves between conversations

>>> * Why have we not compiled statistics in a way that serves all of

>>> our purposes?  Most of the data on the NIFL web site is very

>>> dated.  That's sad.

>>> * I don't think we are very politically outspoken.  Over the

>>> past seven years, the media has failed us and the many of us have

>>> opted to be CAREFUL about how we express our discontent.  Support

>>> for people most in need has dwindled down to a pathetic state and,

>>> in general, the outrage is but a peep in the night.  It's

>>> disgusting.  I don't know that it serves us to bash The

>>> Administration...but let's stop pretending that there wasn't a

>>> genuine attempt to dismantle the ABE systems just a couple of

>>> years ago.  The worst kind of politics is when one side doesn't

>>> want to acknowledge blatant abuse of the public...because it makes

>>> their party look bad.  I don't really care for the left or the

>>> right.  We need to do a better job of being on OUR OWN SIDE...the

>>> side of greater literacy for all.  We need to take risks that

>>> might regenerate the movement.  I'm under-impressed with

>>> discussion lists in general.  They tend to be heavy on philosophy,

>>> intellect, and light on raw truth and gutsy calls to action.

>>> -----

>>>

>>> -------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Special Topics mailing list

>>> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

>>> Email delivered to wfagan at mun.ca

>>

>> -------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Special Topics mailing list

>> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net

>

> David J. Rosen

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Special Topics mailing list

> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> Email delivered to wfagan at mun.ca


-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Special Topics mailing list
SpecialTopics at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics
Email delivered to penny.boyd at dss.virginia.gov