Bravo David,

I've been reading strands all day and have been quietly interested in the 
discussions, but I keep going back to my eternal concern that always lies at 
the bottom of everyone's list - math anxiety, or in the latest terms - 
“productive disposition” - attitude is the older term that went along with 
knowledge and skills back when I was struggling with my dissertation.

I have been a teacher and a learner of mathematics for a long time in many, 
many different environments and levels, and I have been working in an adult 
literacy program for the past three years. My single greatest frustration 
has always been dealing with students' extreme anxiety with mathematics 
tests. I am on the verge of seriously exploring hypnotism as an option.

One quick example - I recently had a student come to me who had passed all 
the GED tests except Math and failed it twice. Now this student was told she 
had to have her GED by December, or she would be fired. GED Testing Services 
only allows three tests in one subject to be taken in one calendar year in 
the USA(what is the deal with that?) - do you see some anxiety might be 
occurring here on the part of the student? We did some intensive work, took 
five official practice tests and passed them all (480 average) and she 
finally went and passed by 40 points.

Until everyone gives attitudes some consideration over the emphasis on 
knowledge and skills, I fear we will get the same results we have always 
gotten - sound familiar?

Lenny Lindstrom

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>
To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 5:58 PM
Subject: [SpecialTopics 687] Re: "numeracy" vs. "mathematical literacy"


Lynda, Mary Jane and Myrna,

Let's look at this question from the perspective of potential adult
learners.  I have talked to graduates from adult literacy programs --
adult learner leaders -- who object to the term "literacy" because,
they said, they could read just fine.  They needed help, they said,
with math.  They complained that the terms "literacy", or "reading",
as a name for a program (e.g. "The Literacy Project" "the Adult
Reading Program" and similar names) obscures that the program offers
numeracy ("math" as students call this) .  One woman said she went
for years without getting help because she didn't know adult basic
math classes existed in her town, and the program that could help her
was just a few blocks away from where she lived! So although there
may be good reasons for using "numeracy" among practitioners, let's
hope that "math" appears alongside in the program promotional
materials so adult learners can find the services they need.

I am reminded of a discussion that I was in recently about what to
name a new corporate online workplace ESOL program. One of the
seasoned teachers in the room said, it doesn't really matter as long
as the name begins with "English" because that's what the students
will call it, "English class". And we all agreed.

I have some more questions about the study:

7. On Page 27, you write: “The mathematical demands of today’s
technological society are different from those of earlier decades.
Some concepts have become more important for coping with the demands
while others are not as critical as they once were.” What are the
concepts that are not as important now, and what concepts are more
important now? (And thanks, Tom Macdonald, for raising the
observations about the relationships of learning technology to
learning numeracy.)

8. As I read the descriptions of “problem solving” on pages 34-35,
the process resonates with a process that I believe is used by some
visual artists. A sculptor, for example, has to “organize the
information from the creative problem into a form or model that
enables the artist to “see” the underlying structure of the problem.
To do that, often sculptors make drawings, look for patterns, and
make models. Has there been research on mathematical or numeracy
problem solving and artistic problem solving and how these thinking
processes might effectively be integrated and strengthen each other
in K-12 schools or adult learning programs? (Thanks, Susan Kidd, for
raising the issue of the relationship of numeracy to the arts.)

9. At the end of the paper you write about the importance of a
“productive disposition” that is, learners having beliefs in their
ability to do numeracy and in its usefulness to them, and having
positive feelings about numeracy. Is this, the affective part of this
component, more important than the other components?  Does it need to
be addressed first, or is it addressed through a teaching and
learning process that weaves together all components equally? Can
this weaving process take place for learners who have very negative
feelings about their ability to do numeracy?

David J. Rosen
Apecial Topics Discussion Leader
djrosen at comcast.net


On Sep 18, 2007, at 8:30 PM, Lynda Ginsburg wrote:


> Hi everyone, including the far flung ones!

>

> To me, I'm also not sure there's a meaningful difference between

> "numeracy" and "mathematical literacy" because we can really define

> them

> as we like.

>

> But, I see an important political issue here in the US in regards

> to the

> terminology. A while back there was a policy document called something

> like "From the margins to the mainstream." The primary focus of the

> policy

> document was literacy, and there was a sentence stating something

> to the

> effect that math was subsumed under "literacy." (The Adult Numeracy

> Network actually responded to this document protesting this limited

> view

> of mathematical learning.)

>

> By talking about "mathematical literacy" within the adult basic ed

> environment, we are using the "L word" and thus continuing to relegate

> math/numeracy instruction and learning to a second tier level,

> subsumed

> under the literacy umbrella. Since the field here has historically

> been so

> focused on literacy, there has been limited attention to and

> recognition

> that teaching and learning math is really very different from

> teaching and

> learning reading/writing.

>

> Those of you from other countries have somehow managed to elevate

> "numeracy" to a relatively equal status with literacy. We couldn't

> convince COABE to title their new journal "Adult Literacy and

> Numeracy,"

> tho the Aussies have one with both words in the title.

>

> So, I vote for the term Numeracy rather than Mathematical Literacy.

>

> I guess this counts as a rant.

>

> Best,

> Lynda

>

> -- 

> Lynda Ginsburg

> Senior Research Associate, MetroMath

> Rutgers University

> tel: 732-445-1409

> -------------------------------




-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Special Topics mailing list
SpecialTopics at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics
Email delivered to learndoc at cox.net