I absolutely agree with Anke¹s points here.

One thing that has changed for the better in UK ESOL is that tired and
disillusioned tutors cannot hide behind the pretence that people come to
class mainly for social contact.
Anyone who has lived and tried to survive in a country where a different
language is spoken can understand that this is not why one enrols for
classes. 
The fact that learners are human beings and may use avoidance strategies
when things get challenging - strategies which get in the way of their
actual goals, should be understood by the tutor. It is our role, as
professionals to understand where the learner is aiming on arrival in our
classes and to keep them on track with their goals in sight (if anything -
raising their aspirations0 by giving honest and clear feedback and showing
the learner we know what we are doing, where they want to go and how to get
them there. 

As Anke says, if the learner has confidence that the tutor is competent ­
understands what the learner is aiming for, feedback and support, including
praise of a constructive and informative nature and non-negative
constructive criticism, will be welcomed.

The question of whether these things are written down, whether targets are
formally set and all the rest is a sticky area and I am aware that many
teachers are strongly opposed to formal record-keeping ­ but busy teachers
must surely find it useful to have aide-memoire for  this purpose.
If the learner can forget their original goals, I¹m sure the teacher can,
too. 
I found that learners like to see that teachers have records and are
organised ­ one of the few complaints I used to get about teachers on my
team was that they were disorganised, forgot what had been said previously
and didn¹t seem to differentiate between students in the class. In general,
learners prefer the opposite.

All the best
Frances




On 27/2/08 21:21, "Anke Grotlüschen" <grotlueschen at uni-bremen.de> wrote:


> Bruce and all the others who discuss praiseŠ

>  

> (David, Janet and John (B/ C/ V), sorry for not directly starting on day

> three, I¹m not yet through with reading day one and two ­ and by the way, I

> liked your ³Good Morning² -  it¹s 22:19h here:-)

>  

> Our ongoing studies suggest that people develop interest in a subject-matter

> if they feel they can participate (in the literal meaning of the latin word:

> pars capere).  Participation includes that they are somehow concerned with the

> consequences of their activities. These consequences might be a good

> relationship to a tutor or fellows. It might be the ability to drive a car, to

> discuss news or to understand documents.

>  

> So, if we want people to stay enrolled, we should think of what is their

> reason to come into the class. German-language theory discusses ³Subject

> Scientific Approaches² ­ related to critical psychology, i.e. Holzkamp and

> Action Theory, i.e. Vygotsky. Similar approaches are provided by John Dewey

> (Interest and effort in Education, 1913).

>  

> Regarding feedback, a small-scale qualitative study we did in 2003 about

> e-learning finds that informative feedback is appreciated very much, when

> provided by someone the students accept to be   competent   in his/her

> subject-matter.  If not, they don¹t even fulfil their tasks, because they are

> not interested in his/her feedback (neither positive nor negative, neither

> informative nor vague).

>  

> Best wishes, 

> Anke

>  

> 

> 

> Von: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] Im

> Auftrag von Bruce C

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 18:01

> An: mary; specialtopics at nifl.gov

> Betreff: [SpecialTopics 798] Re: Smaller classsizes

>  

> 

>  Regarding Prof. Wil.i.am and praise:

> 

>  

> 

> I would summarize Wil.i.am's position regarding praise like this:

> 

> He says that vague, general praise does nothing to help students. It can

> confuse them about what is expected and make them focus on which students are

> getting the most praise in the classroom. He thinks it's better to give

> specific feedback that tells students what they need to improve. Then they

> know what to work on. I get that part, but I am not sure if Wil.i.am thinks it

> is also important to let students know the bigger picture of where they are

> at. If the only feedback I got was what needed to improve, I would not feel

> very good about school and my abilities to succeed.

> 

>  

> 

> I think it is important to note that Wil.i.am's research was done with

> children. One of the big differences between children and adults is that

> children go to school by default. It is "normal"  for children to be in

> school. Even though children may have doubts and fears about their abilities

> to learn, they are not at the same risk for dropping out as adults.

> 

>  

> 

> In Adult Literacy, one of our biggest concerns is retention. We cannot assume

> that most students will stay enrolled no matter what. I think students leave

> school for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's the other pressures and

> responsibilities of life. Sometimes it's because they don't feel that they are

> making progress. Sometimes it's because school is a negative experience. So I

> praise students whenever possible. The praise needs to be honest and specific.

> I think they benefit from hearing that they are learning and succeeded. It may

> be something they have not heard much before. It's also a good way to build a

> positive relationship between teacher and student. I don't know if any

> research backs me up.

> 

>  

> 

> Bruce Carmel

> 

> 

> 

> mary <mschnec at localnet.com> wrote:

>> 

>> I think Dylan Wiliam's point boiled down to "If you only have X dollars to

>> spend you should spend them on getting formative assessment in the classroom

>> because when compared to other reforms/improvements (which presumably

>> included class size although I don't know that for a fact) formative

>> assessment techniques made the biggest most powerful difference regardless of

>> level or country when you compared statistics from many dozens of studies.

>> 

>>  

>> 

>> We all want smaller classes but if you can't afford both, do formative

>> assessment first. It is possible to have a smaller class and not do formative

>> assessment which then will not help those struggling students who most

>> benefit from it.

>> 

>>  

>> 

>> Regarding praise, there is good praise and bad praise.This is not a black

>> white or intuitive issue. The North American formative assessment expert Anne

>> Davies whose work I HIGHLY recommend, shows ways to give helpful praise. If

>> you just say, "Great job" the student doesn't know necessarily what was great

>> about it so as to be able to replicate it and additionally, sometimes

>> students disbelieve such comments. Thus formative assessment experts say

>> praise needs to be specific, like "I see you answered every question!" or

>> whatever. 

>> 

>>  

>> 

>> For more on how praise can be problematic or even damaging, read "Punished by

>> Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.

>> 

>>  

>> 

>>  

>> 

>> Mary Schneckenburger

>> 

>> Program Coordinator

>> 

>> Literacy Volunteers-Androscoggin

>> 

>> 60 Court St., Auburn, ME 04210

>> 

>> 207 333 6601 X 1323

>> 

>> mschnec at juno.com

>>> 

>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>> 

>>> From: Bruce C <mailto:bcarmel at rocketmail.com>

>>> 

>>> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

>>> 

>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:29 PM

>>> 

>>> Subject: [SpecialTopics 777] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk: Smaller classsizes

>>> 'not cost effective

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> Regarding small class size....

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> Excuse my language, but regarding the comments of regarding class size

>>> attributed to Prof Dylan Wiliam, Deputy Director and Professor of

>>> Educational Assessment at the Institute of Education, University of London,

>>> I say ...

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> "BALDERDASH!!! and HOGWASH!!!!"

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> I can't believe anyone who has been a teacher would ever say "...as long as

>>> pupils are well-behaved, then what you can do with a class of 20 is

>>> generally possible with a class of 30."

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> Maybe this was taken out of context. Prof. Wiliam (yes it's only one "L"--I

>>> checked.) says some interesting things about formative assessment and

>>> personalized learning on this "Learning About Learning" website:

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/learningaboutlearning/aboutlal/biogs/biogdylanw

>>> iliam.asp

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> He does say a few wacky things--like that praise hurts students.

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> Prof. Wil.i.am. says that formative assessment "encourages teachers to take

>>> constant readings about where students are." He says it's important to do

>>> this "minute by minute, day by day."  That's why I can't believe this dude

>>> really thinks that class size doesn't matter. I think a teacher with 20

>>> students in his/her class can get a better sense of where everyone is than a

>>> teacher with 30 students.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Sure there may be things we can do that are cheaper than reducing class

>>> size...

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> But so what?

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> If that is how we define "cost effectiveness" why not TRIPLE class size and

>>> save tons of money?

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> You get my point, right?

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> from Bruce Carmel

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>>  

>>> 

>>> Prof Dylan Wiliam, deputy director of

>>> the Institute of Education says,

>>> 

>>>  

>>> <http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/learningaboutlearning/aboutlal/biogs/biogdylan

>>> wiliam.asp>  

>>> 

>>> 

>>> "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>> Colleagues,

>>>> 

>>>> Tom Sticht spotted this on the EducationGuardian.co.uk site and sent

>>>> it for our formative assessment discussion.

>>>> 

>>>> -------

>>>> Note from Tom Sticht:

>>>> 

>>>> This article about formative assessment appears in todays (2/25/08

>>>> Education Guardian online.

>>>> -------

>>>> 

>>>> To see this story with its related links on the

>>>> EducationGuardian.co.uk site, go to http://education.guardian.co.uk

>>>> 

>>>> Smaller class sizes 'not cost effective'

>>>> Anthea Lipsett

>>>> Monday February 25 2008

>>>> The Guardian

>>>> 

>>>> Reducing school class sizes in an attempt to raise pupil achievement

>>>> is a waste of money for all but the youngest children, one of the

>>>> country's leading experts on assessment said today.

>>>> 

>>>> Cutting class size by 30% gives children the equivalent of four extra

>>>> months of learning a year, but costs around £20,000 for each

>>>> class every year, according to Prof Dylan Wiliam, deputy director of

>>>> the Institute of Education.

>>>> 

>>>> He said the more effective method of "formative assessment" - where

>>>> teachers monitor their pupils' progress continuously and provide

>>>> appropriate feedback - could provide eight extra months of

>>>> educational development for only £2,000 per classroom per year.

>>>> 

>>>> "It can therefore be 20 times as cost-effective as reducing class

>>>> size in terms of pupil achievement," he told the annual Chartered

>>>> London Teachers Conference today.

>>>> 

>>>> "Smaller classes do confer a benefit if pupils are unruly, because

>>>> fewer pupils in a class means less disruption. But as long as pupils

>>>> are well-behaved, then what you can do with a class of 20 is

>>>> generally possible with a class of 30.

>>>> 

>>>> "Smaller classes can also be more cost-effective for five to seven-

>>>> year-olds, but research suggests the class size needs to be reduced

>>>> to 15 or less," he said.

>>>> 

>>>> Wiliam added that investments in information communication technology

>>>> have also shown a poor return. But international studies have

>>>> confirmed that formative assessment can double the speed of pupil

>>>> learning.

>>>> 

>>>> Some teachers use a "traffic light" system and ask pupils to hold up

>>>> different coloured cards to show whether they have understood what

>>>> they have been told. Red means "no", amber means "partly", and green

>>>> "yes". Pupils are also encouraged to evaluate their own work and

>>>> advise their classmates on how they can improve.

>>>> 

>>>> The English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish education departments

>>>> have all provided varying degrees of backing for formative assessment.

>>>> 

>>>> After three years of research in both the UK and the US, Wiliam

>>>> concluded that the approach would only take off properly if teachers

>>>> work together in school-based groups to refine their classroom methods.

>>>> 

>>>> Wiliam and his co-researchers found that groups of eight to 10

>>>> teachers who meet once a month for at least two years can be most

>>>> effective. "It takes time to change teachers' ways of working,

>>>> particularly if they have been in the classroom for many years," said

>>>> Wiliam. "Simply telling teachers what to do doesn't work."

>>>> 

>>>> "For example, most teachers have heard about research from the 1980s

>>>> which shows that if they wait three to five seconds after asking a

>>>> question their pupils' performance improves because they have been

>>>> given some time to think.

>>>> 

>>>> "Even so, many teachers are still allowing less than a second for

>>>> pupils to respond. The conclusion we can draw from that is that

>>>> knowing what to do is the easy part of teaching. Actually doing it is

>>>> what's hard."

>>>> 

>>>> Wiliam told EducationGuardian.co.uk that teacher quality was key to

>>>> any improvements.

>>>> 

>>>> "To reduce class size from 30 to 20 would need 150,000 more teachers

>>>> and that would dilute the quality of teachers," he said.

>>>> 

>>>> "We need to change what teachers do day in day out in the classroom

>>>> and we need to get better teachers into the profession."

>>>> 

>>>> Martin Johnson, acting deputy general secretary of the Association of

>>>> Teachers and Lecturers, said the research should encourage the

>>>> government to "put its money where its mouth is".

>>>> 

>>>> "Staff need to work together to learn how to teach more effectively,

>>>> but schools will need more resources to do this. [Wiliam] reminds us

>>>> that this would be very cost-effective.

>>>> 

>>>> "Schools have benefited hugely over the last decade from having more

>>>> classroom based staff but much more training is needed to make their

>>>> deployment fully effective.

>>>> 

>>>> "And while the government says it encourages assessment for learning,

>>>> its testing policies have stolen teachers' self-confidence so new

>>>> training must be provided and resourced.

>>>> 

>>>> "School staff desperately need a contractual entitlement to training

>>>> which meets their individual needs."

>>>> 

>>>> Copyright Guardian News and Media Limited

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> David J. Rosen

>>>> Special Topics Discussion Moderator

>>>> djrosen at comcast.net

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> -------------------------------

>>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>>> Special Topics mailing list

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>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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>>>> Email delivered to bcarmel at rocketmail.com

>>>  

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>

>>> 

>>> 

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