I have been one of many readers enjoying the discussion on-line as much
as I could, given a limited amount of time to read through all the
material. 

I have been surprised that no one has referenced a large body of work
done in the United States in our K-12 system on Formative Assessments.
We as teachers at Fresno Adult School have been given several books to
read and discuss by Douglas Reeves, ("Ahead of the Curve"), and Richard
DuFour ("On Common Ground"), just to name two.  Their work and writings
strongly concur with the things people have been saying here.  We are
working on taking these principles and applying them to adult education.

As a practitioner teaching a lower level ABE class, I have found that
using assessments in a formative manner has given me clearer vision of
what the class is actually learning, as opposed to what I am teaching.
Sometimes, to my chagrin, there is a high level of disconnect and I need
to rethink what I am doing as a teacher.  Other times the students have
caught what I have taught and we go on our merry way.

Since we are open-entry/open-exit, we have more freedom to expand our
teaching time of various subjects until we feel certain the students
have mastered the material.  For me, this has meant that I now think
about using the assessments to inform me about areas for additional
study instead of just plowing on through the curriculum as I had done to
a certain degree before.

We are working at forming Professional Learning Communities here among
the staff and it was interesting to see them being described without
using that specific term.

I hope we can re-visit this subject in the future as more and more adult
schools begin using formative assessments to see what the results may
be.

Steven Ewert
Fresno Adult School Instructor
Fresno, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
specialtopics-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:51 AM
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: SpecialTopics Digest, Vol 19, Issue 29

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Today's Topics:

   1. [SpecialTopics 824] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk:	Smaller
      classsizes'not cost effective (A Tom)
   2. [SpecialTopics 825] Last day of discussion on formative
      assessment (David J. Rosen)
   3. [SpecialTopics 826] Re: Last day of discussion on formative
      assessment (Cheryl Thornett)
   4. [SpecialTopics 827] Re: Last day of discussion on	formative
      assessment (carroll.collins at neklsvt.org)
   5. [SpecialTopics 828] Re: What is formative assessment (Vorp, Ron)
   6. [SpecialTopics 829] Re: smartness and effort (Jan Potter)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:53:41 -0500
From: A Tom <abtom at mindspring.com>
Subject: [SpecialTopics 824] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk:	Smaller
	classsizes'not cost effective
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Message-ID: <95B55931-FBC9-4D3A-BCD4-6C2522E92125 at mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
	format=flowed


On Feb 28, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Cheryl Diamond wrote:


> Hi, all

>

> I read and watched the replies on this issue. Mixed reactions, as a  

> current taxpayer and former teacher, I possess. I am sure that not  

> everyone will accept what I have to say. However, my points should  

> be taken from where they come.

>

> Very hard to say that if you reduce class size you have a perfect  

> solution. Some classes should be smaller but not all. You certainly  

> do raise the price on education as no one seems to give up any  

> monies. As a current taxpayer facing unending increases across the  

> board, I  can say "ENOUGH".

> But as we all know it is not only the teachers' responsiblity. As a  

> former teacher, I saw good and less good teachers. The same goes  

> for parents and admin people.

>

> At least the article on class  size produced comment. As a voter  

> who can see how the class size amendment got adopted, I would say  

> we need to revisit the election with less special interest input.

>

> I am disappointed when 1)I don't have clerks who can't figure the  

> exact amount I hand them, or 2)I hear that people haven't been  

> reading  up on the issues or candidates, 3)or readership in a  

> variety of media is down, and finally, 4) listen to high school  

> graduates don't know what EPA means in our government. Yet, a  

> teacher has a very full plate with the extra paperwork, etc., put  

> on him/her. Less government interference and more qualitative  

> parental interest would be tops on my list.

>

> There is only so much money for education. It should be spent  

> correctly on OUR students. I am truly aware of the immigration  

> issues and how it has obliterated the budget process. Keep it  

> simple as best we can.

>

> Thanks, Cheryl Diamond

>

>

> From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:42:12 -0500

> Subject: [SpecialTopics 791] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk: Smaller  

> classsizes'not cost effective

>

> Hi everyone,

>

>

> Great discussion, it?s so full and rich I don?t know where to  

> begin.  My apologies if what I say below has been noted already ?

>

>

> But I will second John?s comments re:  Dylan Wiliam.  I think that  

> the Education Guardian article below takes many of his points out  

> of context.

>

>

> Best to get it from the horse?s mouth I would say:  see Black and  

> Wiliam, Inside the Black Box:   Raising Standards through Classroom  

> Assessment at http://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/kbla9810.htm for starters.

>

>

> I get a ton out of his notion of Assessment FOR Learning versus  

> Assessment OF Learning.

>

>

> Marie Cora

>

> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:specialtopics- 

> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of John Benseman

> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM

> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

> Subject: [SpecialTopics 779] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk: Smaller  

> classsizes'not cost effective

>

>

> I don?t know the specific words that Dylan Wiliam uses about class  

> size, but I am guessing that what he says is that there is no  

> authoritative research that shows that class size is irrefutably  

> related to student learning. This is not to say that class size  

> doesn?t matter, it merely says that the research over many 100s of  

> studies is inconclusive to date.

>

>

> As I am sure that the great majority of people on this listserv  

> will attest, we all feel intuitively that class size DOES matter ?  

> it?s just that there is no research to back this conclusion. The  

> jury, so to speak, is still out on this dimension of teaching (as  

> it is in many other areas).

>

>

> The second point re saying that ?praise hurts students?: I couldn?t  

> find the specific reference, but again interpreting what I think  

> Wiliam would say is something along the lines of: just praising  

> students for the sake of praising does them little good. What is  

> needed however is clear and realistic feedback on where they are at  

> in their learning. If that comes with a dollop of praise, then  

> that?s great, but praise per se is not sufficient.

>

>

> I think that we can fall in to a trap of thinking that learners  

> invariably want/need support (which they do at times), but they  

> also need to be challenged, which means that we need to give them  

> realistic feedback on how they are progressing (or not).

>

>

> Regards, John

>

>

> PS I am not a paid servant of Dylan Wiliam, but I am a fan of his  

> research?

>

>

> John Benseman

>

> *   john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz

>

> (   641 9 627 1882  Cell  027 454 0683

>

> - 52a Bolton St, Blockhouse Bay, Auckland 0600, NZ

>

> From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:specialtopics- 

> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bruce C

> Sent: Wednesday, 27 February 2008 11:29 a.m.

> To: specialtopics at nifl.gov

> Subject: [SpecialTopics 777] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk: Smaller  

> classsizes 'not cost effective

>

>

> Regarding small class size....

>

>

> Excuse my language, but regarding the comments of regarding class  

> size attributed to Prof Dylan Wiliam, Deputy Director and Professor  

> of Educational Assessment at the Institute of Education, University  

> of London, I say ...

>

>

> "BALDERDASH!!! and HOGWASH!!!!"

>

>

> I can't believe anyone who has been a teacher would ever say "...as  

> long as pupils are well-behaved, then what you can do with a class  

> of 20 is generally possible with a class of 30."

>

>

> Maybe this was taken out of context. Prof. Wiliam (yes it's only  

> one "L"--I checked.) says some interesting things about formative  

> assessment and personalized learning on this "Learning About  

> Learning" website:

>

>

> http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/learningaboutlearning/aboutlal/biogs/ 

> biogdylanwiliam.asp

>

>

> He does say a few wacky things--like that praise hurts students.

>

>

> Prof. Wil.i.am. says that formative assessment "encourages teachers  

> to take constant readings about where students are." He says it's  

> important to do this "minute by minute, day by day."  That's why I  

> can't believe this dude really thinks that class size doesn't  

> matter. I think a teacher with 20 students in his/her class can get  

> a better sense of where everyone is than a teacher with 30 students.

>

>

> Sure there may be things we can do that are cheaper than reducing  

> class size...

>

>

> But so what?

>

>

> If that is how we define "cost effectiveness" why not TRIPLE class  

> size and save tons of money?

>

>

> You get my point, right?

>

>

> from Bruce Carmel

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Prof Dylan Wiliam, deputy director of

> the Institute of Education says,

>

>

>

>

> "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> wrote:

>

> Colleagues,

>

> Tom Sticht spotted this on the EducationGuardian.co.uk site and sent

> it for our formative assessment discussion.

>

> -------

> Note from Tom Sticht:

>

> This article about formative assessment appears in todays (2/25/08

> Education Guardian online.

> -------

>

> To see this story with its related links on the

> EducationGuardian.co.uk site, go to http://education.guardian.co.uk

>

> Smaller class sizes 'not cost effective'

> Anthea Lipsett

> Monday February 25 2008

> The Guardian

>

> Reducing school class sizes in an attempt to raise pupil achievement

> is a waste of money for all but the youngest children, one of the

> country's leading experts on assessment said today.

>

> Cutting class size by 30% gives children the equivalent of four extra

> months of learning a year, but costs around ?20,000 for each

> class every year, according to Prof Dylan Wiliam, deputy director of

> the Institute of Education.

>

> He said the more effective method of "formative assessment" - where

> teachers monitor their pupils' progress continuously and provide

> appropriate feedback - could provide eight extra months of

> educational development for only ?2,000 per classroom per year.

>

> "It can therefore be 20 times as cost-effective as reducing class

> size in terms of pupil achievement," he told the annual Chartered

> London Teachers Conference today.

>

> "Smaller classes do confer a benefit if pupils are unruly, because

> fewer pupils in a class means less disruption. But as long as pupils

> are well-behaved, then what you can do with a class of 20 is

> generally possible with a class of 30.

>

> "Smaller classes can also be more cost-effective for five to seven-

> year-olds, but research suggests the class size needs to be reduced

> to 15 or less," he said.

>

> Wiliam added that investments in information communication technology

> have also shown a poor return. But international studies have

> confirmed that formative assessment can double the speed of pupil

> learning.

>

> Some teachers use a "traffic light" system and ask pupils to hold up

> different coloured cards to show whether they have understood what

> they have been told. Red means "no", amber means "partly", and green

> "yes". Pupils are also encouraged to evaluate their own work and

> advise their classmates on how they can improve.

>

> The English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish education departments

> have all provided varying degrees of backing for formative assessment.

>

> After three years of research in both the UK and the US, Wiliam

> concluded that the approach would only take off properly if teachers

> work together in school-based groups to refine their classroom  

> methods.

>

> Wiliam and his co-researchers found that groups of eight to 10

> teachers who meet once a month for at least two years can be most

> effective. "It takes time to change teachers' ways of working,

> particularly if they have been in the classroom for many years," said

> Wiliam. "Simply telling teachers what to do doesn't work."

>

> "For example, most teachers have heard about research from the 1980s

> which shows that if they wait three to five seconds after asking a

> question their pupils' performance improves because they have been

> given some time to think.

>

> "Even so, many teachers are still allowing less than a second for

> pupils to respond. The conclusion we can draw from that is that

> knowing what to do is the easy part of teaching. Actually doing it is

> what's hard."

>

> Wiliam told EducationGuardian.co.uk that teacher quality was key to

> any improvements.

>

> "To reduce class size from 30 to 20 would need 150,000 more teachers

> and that would dilute the quality of teachers," he said.

>

> "We need to change what teachers do day in day out in the classroom

> and we need to get better teachers into the profession."

>

> Martin Johnson, acting deputy general secretary of the Association of

> Teachers and Lecturers, said the research should encourage the

> government to "put its money where its mouth is".

>

> "Staff need to work together to learn how to teach more effectively,

> but schools will need more resources to do this. [Wiliam] reminds us

> that this would be very cost-effective.

>

> "Schools have benefited hugely over the last decade from having more

> classroom based staff but much more training is needed to make their

> deployment fully effective.

>

> "And while the government says it encourages assessment for learning,

> its testing policies have stolen teachers' self-confidence so new

> training must be provided and resourced.

>

> "School staff desperately need a contractual entitlement to training

> which meets their individual needs."

>

> Copyright Guardian News and Media Limited

>

>

>

> David J. Rosen

> Special Topics Discussion Moderator

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Special Topics mailing list

> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> Email delivered to bcarmel at rocketmail.com

>

>

>

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Special Topics mailing list

> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> Email delivered to abtom at mindspring.com




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:04:56 -0500
From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>
Subject: [SpecialTopics 825] Last day of discussion on formative
	assessment
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Message-ID: <B22A8AA4-E274-4C56-9E06-A031A497D06C at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Colleagues,

Friday, February 29th, is the last day of our discussion on formative  
assessment. If you haven't done so yet, Friday is the day to "leap"  
into the conversation. If you have remaining questions or comments  
for our guests, please ask them early in the day so that there might  
be time for our guests to reply. If our guests -- and others who have  
done research on formative assessment -- would like to add anything  
or emphasize any key points, now is the time to do that.

I would like to encourage those who have particularly good examples  
of formative assessment in adult education classrooms to be sure to  
mention them, whether you are a researcher, practitioner or both.

I would also like to encourage Janet and others who participated in  
the What Works study to comment on how policy supports or hinders  
formative assessment. Perhaps provide a specific example or two.


David J. Rosen
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen at comcast.net





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:25:31 -0000
From: "Cheryl Thornett" <cherylthornett at hotmail.com>
Subject: [SpecialTopics 826] Re: Last day of discussion on formative
	assessment
To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <BLU129-DAV1353B57E543BB07EAACC0ECC140 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Writing again not as an expert or researcher, but as a practising ESOL 
teacher, I would like to stress that 'formative' and 'assessment' are 
equally important parts of the procedure. This can include day-to-day 
classroom work, if it feeds into further work, but I find students
respond 
well to specific assessment tasks, such as writing a note or giving a
short 
talk on an agreed subject. (Paired conversations or role plays and small

group discussions also work well.) I like to give communicative and
grammar 
and vocabulary assessments. Paper-based assessment tasks can be part of
a 
portfolio or other student record; we don't have a practical way of
doing 
the same with oral communications, beyond written records.

 Where students have anxiety problems or have past negative experiences,

perhaps  the word 'assessment' should be avoided, and  steps taken to
avoid 
creating unnecessary anxiety--a very shy student can speak just to the 
teacher, instead of to the whole class, for example, or the written 
communication can either be tailored to a particular student or assessed

against their personal current level. The task needs to be meaningful to
the 
learner and feedback on their achievement and the next step/s is
essential, 
even if this is short and informal. I think it also helps, eventually,
to 
reduce anxiety levels about testing procedures. Some good points have
been 
made here about effective praise, and of course, we all want to be
positive 
but honest in discussing weaknesses or lack of achievement.

I believe my local colleagues in Skills for Life numeracy have similar 
procedures, including practical assessments such as weighing and
measuring, 
making change and so forth.

Newer teachers, in particular, need support  with considerations such as
the 
frequency of assessments, the size of steps they measure, the degree of 
formality and recording procedures. Managers and administrators really
need 
to consult with practitioners about what is truly do-able, rather than 
imposing procedures and paperwork which are not. This is particularly
true 
when said managers and administrators have been out of the classroom for

many years, or have never been classroom teachers. I doubt I am the only
one 
who feels far more receptive to ideas which come from other teachers.

I really appreciate these opportunities to learn and to share. Thanks, 
David, and thanks, NIFL.

Cheryl Thornett
ESOL tutor
Birmingham  UK Adult Education



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>
To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 4:04 AM
Subject: [SpecialTopics 825] Last day of discussion on formative
assessment



> Colleagues,

>

> Friday, February 29th, is the last day of our discussion on formative

> assessment. If you haven't done so yet, Friday is the day to "leap"

> into the conversation. If you have remaining questions or comments

> for our guests, please ask them early in the day so that there might

> be time for our guests to reply. If our guests -- and others who have

> done research on formative assessment -- would like to add anything

> or emphasize any key points, now is the time to do that.

>

> I would like to encourage those who have particularly good examples

> of formative assessment in adult education classrooms to be sure to

> mention them, whether you are a researcher, practitioner or both.

>

> I would also like to encourage Janet and others who participated in

> the What Works study to comment on how policy supports or hinders

> formative assessment. Perhaps provide a specific example or two.

>

>

> David J. Rosen

> Special Topics Discussion Moderator

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Special Topics mailing list

> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> Email delivered to cherylthornett at hotmail.com

> 




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:44:03 -0500
From: carroll.collins at neklsvt.org
Subject: [SpecialTopics 827] Re: Last day of discussion on
formative
	assessment
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Message-ID: <20080229104403.xfswolqaas88swc0 at webmail.neklsvt.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	DelSp="Yes";
	format="flowed"

Quoting "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>:


> Colleagues,

>

> Friday, February 29th, is the last day of our discussion on formative

> assessment. If you haven't done so yet, Friday is the day to "leap"

> into the conversation. If you have remaining questions or comments

> for our guests, please ask them early in the day so that there might

> be time for our guests to reply. If our guests -- and others who have

> done research on formative assessment -- would like to add anything

> or emphasize any key points, now is the time to do that.

>

> I would like to encourage those who have particularly good examples

> of formative assessment in adult education classrooms to be sure to

> mention them, whether you are a researcher, practitioner or both.

>

> I would also like to encourage Janet and others who participated in

> the What Works study to comment on how policy supports or hinders

> formative assessment. Perhaps provide a specific example or two.

>

>

> David J. Rosen

> Special Topics Discussion Moderator

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Special Topics mailing list

> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to   

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> Email delivered to carroll.collins at neklsvt.org

>


Greetings David and all,

I have been following this weeks discussion with great interest. Here  
in Vermont we have been focusing on "learner persistence" and how we  
might improve it.  We have a number of adult learners who enroll with  
our learning programs, but fail to follow through on their stated  
learning objectives.

It has occurred to me that if we designed learning plans, curricula,  
and courses that allowed the participants to experience progress in  
increments that were meaningful and useful to them, this might  
contribute to their remaining in the program and completing their  
goals.  Formative assessments that are built into the learning plans  
seem to be an effective way to promote learner persistence by giving  
the learner a sense of what they've already accomplished and what must  
still be mastered in order to succeed in their efforts.

Carroll Collins
Community Learning Teacher
Northeast Kingdom Learning Services
St. Johnsbury Adult Learning Center
364 Railroad Street
St. Johnsbury, VT 05819
(802) 748-5624



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:32:57 -0500
From: "Vorp, Ron" <Ron.Vorp at fldoe.org>
Subject: [SpecialTopics 828] Re: What is formative assessment
To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E0B506103 at MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Good morning,
A follow up to "what is formative assessment'
I was completely ignorant of formative assessment prior to this
discussion, and have learned from, and enjoyed following, this
discussion. I do have a question regarding formative.
It seems that formative assessment is summative assessment being done
more frequently. It's as if there is a continuum between the two. By
that I mean assessment is done to assessment more specific skills. An
example might be assessing whether a student has addition skills before
you try to teach that student division. Remember of course that division
requires subtraction. Formative assessment does not assess learning
styles, it is not diagnostic in the sense that the WISC-R or WAIS is.

Am I completely off base here?

Thank you.

Ron Vorp
850 245-9035
Budget, Accountability, and Research
Division of Workforce Development
325 W. Gaines St
Tallahassee, FL 32399

   


 

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0Fri%2029%20Feb%202008
 



 -----Original Message-----
From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hann, Naeema
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:38 AM
To: dwyoho at earthlink.net; specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: [SpecialTopics 815] Re: What is formative assessment

Hi! all, have been following this with great interest and have also
recommended this discussion to some colleagues.

Now then, in England, formative assessment has very much been a part of
Adult ESOL delivery for a long time. It has certainly been more visible
since Skills For Life came on board or rather Skills For Life took ESOL
on board. It is also included in teacher training programmes. It is of
course very effective in moving learners on and also, depending on the
teacher's approach, in getting learners to develop an increasing
awareness of their own role in their learning journey.

Best wishes,


Naeema 

Naeema B.Hann
PhD student
Leslie Silver International Faculty
Leeds Metropolitan University
Macaulay Hall
Headingley Campus
Leeds LS6 3QS
ph.+44+(0)113-812-3581 (direct)


-----Original Message-----
From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Debbie Yoho
Sent: 25 February 2008 20:14
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: [SpecialTopics 752] Re: What is formative assessment

While is appears formative assessment is relatively an unknown idea in
adult education, it may be very familiar to educators trained for k-12.
As
an undergraduate secondary education major in 1971, I was carefully
taught the difference between formative and summative assessments.  The
emphasis for formative assessment was on teacher-developed assessment
tools.  We studied Robert Mager's structure for formulating objectives
and outcomes, and were taught to create our own periodic assessments,
oiften quite informal,  keyed to those objectives.  One book that had a
profound impact
on my teaching practice was called CLASSROOM QUESTIONS.	 Alas, I cannot
remember the author and no longer have the book.  But the book showed
how
to structure questions by considering Bloom's Taxonomy.   If the title
rings a bell with anyone I'd love to be reminded of the author and
whether or not it is still in print.  It was a slim volume, less than
100 pages.

Questions for our special topics guests:  is the foundational work of
Bloom and Mager pertinent to how formative assessment was evaluated in
the OECD studies, and are we talking mainly about teacher-made tools?

Deborah W. Yoho
director, Turning Pages
     (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council) a community
service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
803-765-2555   Fax:  803-779-1657
PO Box 1447  Columbia, SC  29202
yohogclc at earthlink.net



> [Original Message]

> From: David J. Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net>

> To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

> Date: 2/25/2008 1:40:36 PM

> Subject: [SpecialTopics 751]  What is formative assessment

>

> Colleagues,

>

> A discussion list subscriber wrote to me offline: "David, I've never 

> heard of formative assessment in adult basic education.  What is it?" 

> I think she may speak for many in the U.S.

> who are subscribed to this discussion.

>

> I encourage those who are new to this concept -- or possibly just this



> term -- to post your questions now, to ask  Janet and our other guests



> about what formative assessment means. You might ask questions



> like "Does it mean that a teacher would......" or " ...that students 

> would...." or "Does it differ from summative assessment in that....."



> or however you like.

>

> While we await subscribers' questions, Janet could you give some more



> examples of formative assessment in adult foundation (basic) skills.

>

> David J. Rosen

> Special Topics Discussion Moderator

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Special Topics mailing list

> SpecialTopics at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/SpecialTopics

> Email delivered to dwyoho at earthlink.net



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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:27:21 -0500
From: "Jan Potter" <jpotter at gha.org>
Subject: [SpecialTopics 829] Re: smartness and effort
To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <FFE7C75CEE15B042B0453ABA750444DD704879 at email.gha.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I appreciate the comments.  I think the bottom line is that if we praise
a child by telling them how smart they are, then there is nothing that
they can actually do to improve (and, in some cases, the child might
actually do less since, after all, they are smart and decide they don't
need to work any more).  Obviously, the other side is a bad idea
(telling someone that they are not smart or dumb).

 

The author's position is that by praising effort you are praising
something that is within your control.  I guess that I would personally
separate this from the idea of remarking on the difficulty of the task.
To be told that "you did really well and I know this was really hard" is
very reinforcing to me personally.

 

I also wonder if there is a learning style issue here.  Does someone
perform better with verbal praise or with getting a good grade, for
example.  We can say that both would apply but if you hear a teacher
always telling her students how well they do, you might not buy it
personally.

 

I have certainly seen in my own students that if they are praised in
writing, they tend to participate in class better in the future.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anke Grotl?schen
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:51 PM
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: [SpecialTopics 820] smartness and effort

 

Jan, 

 

These studies seem to rely on Albert Banduras idea of self-efficacy and
attribution of causes. I find it quite convincing (no idea whether I can
explain it correctly as I am an ESOL learner as well): 

 

People tend to attribute causes to things that happened. If you get good
grades, you can use 

a)       stable causes (I'm smart) 

b)       variable causes (I invested so much effort)

 

You can either attribute internal causes or external ones, which are
outside your "locus of control". The latter don't motivate.

 

So, as you cannot change stable causes (smart vs. dumb), you wouldn't be
motivated to improve, if you believe your success comes from stable
dispositions. But if you believe it is in your hand whether to change
things or not (effort vs. lazyness), you are motivated. So it is better
to tell an unsuccessful person, that it is his/her fault and in his/her
control to do better -  than to say it's because of the difficulty of
the task or his/her dumbness.

 

So far about theory, I don't know the empirical proof for this :-)

Thanks, 

Anke

________________________________

Von: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] Im Auftrag von Jan Potter
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 19:47
An: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Betreff: [SpecialTopics 801] Re:
EducationGuardian.co.uk:Smallerclasssizes'not cost effective (Tom
Mechem)

 

I realize we are a bit off-task, but on the topic of "praise" - 

An interesting article in New York magazine on this topic  - by Po
Bronson called "How Not to Talk to Your Kids" (here's a link:
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/ ). In this article, Bronson talks

about research done by Carol Dweck (then of Columbia, now at Stanford)
that suggests that praising a kid as being "smart" actually hurts their
ongoing progress, ability, and perseverance when trying new

(especially intellectually challenging) things. The data suggest that
praising *effort* gets dramatically better results.

 

The New York magazine article was quite an eye-opener for me.

 

It seems we are moving away from the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality
these days.  The author's point was fascinating to me on the subject
that a smart child would not take on challenging tasks.

 

Jan Potter, MSTC

Communications Specialist

Georgia Hospital Association

 

-----Original Message-----
From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mechem, Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:00 AM
To: john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz; specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: [SpecialTopics 787] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk:
Smallerclasssizes'not cost effective (Tom Mechem)

 

If we all waited until we could prove everything in a court of law, we'd
be even more doomed than we are presently. There's no question that
smaller classes are needed for effective teaching and learning---just
ask the teachers and just ask the students. Would R. Walker Willingham
pay $30,000 a year to send his 14-year-old daughter Tiffany to St.
Grottlesex if her European History class had 30 students instead of 12?

 

The point about praise is a tricky one. Certainly it doesn't do any good
to tell someone she's smart if she doesn't believe it herself: you will
only lose all credibility and trust. Yet our students need to know that
we believe in them. It's like the advice we give parents: it's not
enough to love your kids; they have to know that you love them. (Another
untestable value of high literacy: you can get your point across.) It's
not enough to believe in your students; they have to know you believe in
them. However, as a wise man once said, "Self-confidence is bred of
demonstrated ability." We can't just tell people they're smart; we have
to create the educational environment by which they can come to know it
for themselves. That's one of the intangible great things about the GED
diploma: earning it proves to the student that she is smart. Though
there are still lingering numbers of nattering nabobs of negativity who
doubt the value of the GED process and the credential, one group
 
  that has no doubts are the students themselves.

 

Keep on rockin' in the free world (if there still is such a place).

 

 

Tom Mechem

GED State Chief Examiner

Massachusetts Department of Education

781-338-6621

"GED to Ph.D."

	-----Original Message-----
	From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of John Benseman
	Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM
	To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
	Subject: [SpecialTopics 779] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk:
Smaller classsizes'not cost effective

	I don't know the specific words that Dylan Wiliam uses about
class size, but I am guessing that what he says is that there is no
authoritative research that shows that class size is irrefutably related
to student learning. This is not to say that class size doesn't matter,
it merely says that the research over many 100s of studies is
inconclusive to date.

	 

	As I am sure that the great majority of people on this listserv
will attest, we all feel intuitively that class size DOES matter - it's
just that there is no research to back this conclusion. The jury, so to
speak, is still out on this dimension of teaching (as it is in many
other areas).

	 

	The second point re saying that 'praise hurts students': I
couldn't find the specific reference, but again interpreting what I
think Wiliam would say is something along the lines of: just praising
students for the sake of praising does them little good. What is needed
however is clear and realistic feedback on where they are at in their
learning. If that comes with a dollop of praise, then that's great, but
praise per se is not sufficient.

	 

	I think that we can fall in to a trap of thinking that learners
invariably want/need support (which they do at times), but they also
need to be challenged, which means that we need to give them realistic
feedback on how they are progressing (or not).

	 

	Regards, John

	 

	PS I am not a paid servant of Dylan Wiliam, but I am a fan of
his research...

	 

	John Benseman

	*   john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz

	*   641 9 627 1882  Cell  027 454 0683

	* 52a Bolton St, Blockhouse Bay, Auckland 0600, NZ

	
________________________________


	From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bruce C
	Sent: Wednesday, 27 February 2008 11:29 a.m.
	To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
	Subject: [SpecialTopics 777] Re: EducationGuardian.co.uk:
Smaller classsizes 'not cost effective

	 

	Regarding small class size....

	 

	Excuse my language, but regarding the comments of regarding
class size attributed to Prof Dylan Wiliam, Deputy Director and
Professor of Educational Assessment at the Institute of Education,
University of London, I say ...

	 

	"BALDERDASH!!! and HOGWASH!!!!" 

	 

	I can't believe anyone who has been a teacher would ever say
"...as long as pupils are well-behaved, then what you can do with a
class of 20 is generally possible with a class of 30." 

	 

	Maybe this was taken out of context. Prof. Wiliam (yes it's only
one "L"--I checked.) says some interesting things about formative
assessment and personalized learning on this "Learning About Learning"
website: 

	 

	
http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/learningaboutlearning/aboutlal/biogs/biogdy
lanwiliam.asp

	 

	He does say a few wacky things--like that praise hurts students.


	 

	Prof. Wil.i.am. says that formative assessment "encourages
teachers to take constant readings about where students are." He says
it's important to do this "minute by minute, day by day."  That's why I
can't believe this dude really thinks that class size doesn't matter. I
think a teacher with 20 students in his/her class can get a better sense
of where everyone is than a teacher with 30 students. 

	
	Sure there may be things we can do that are cheaper than
reducing class size...

	 

	But so what?

	 

	If that is how we define "cost effectiveness" why not TRIPLE
class size and save tons of money? 

	 

	You get my point, right? 

	 

	from Bruce Carmel

	 

	 

	 

	 

	 

	Prof Dylan Wiliam, deputy director of 
	the Institute of Education says, 

	
<http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/learningaboutlearning/aboutlal/biogs/biogd
ylanwiliam.asp>  

	
	"David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> wrote:

		Colleagues,
		
		Tom Sticht spotted this on the EducationGuardian.co.uk
site and sent 
		it for our formative assessment discussion.
		
		-------
		Note from Tom Sticht:
		
		This article about formative assessment appears in
todays (2/25/08 
		Education Guardian online.
		-------
		
		To see this story with its related links on the 
		EducationGuardian.co.uk site, go to
http://education.guardian.co.uk
		
		Smaller class sizes 'not cost effective'
		Anthea Lipsett
		Monday February 25 2008
		The Guardian
		
		Reducing school class sizes in an attempt to raise pupil
achievement 
		is a waste of money for all but the youngest children,
one of the 
		country's leading experts on assessment said today.
		
		Cutting class size by 30% gives children the equivalent
of four extra 
		months of learning a year, but costs around ?20,000 for
each 
		class every year, according to Prof Dylan Wiliam, deputy
director of 
		the Institute of Education.
		
		He said the more effective method of "formative
assessment" - where 
		teachers monitor their pupils' progress continuously and
provide 
		appropriate feedback - could provide eight extra months
of 
		educational development for only ?2,000 per classroom
per year.
		
		"It can therefore be 20 times as cost-effective as
reducing class 
		size in terms of pupil achievement," he told the annual
Chartered 
		London Teachers Conference today.
		
		"Smaller classes do confer a benefit if pupils are
unruly, because 
		fewer pupils in a class means less disruption. But as
long as pupils 
		are well-behaved, then what you can do with a class of
20 is 
		generally possible with a class of 30.
		
		"Smaller classes can also be more cost-effective for
five to seven- 
		year-olds, but research suggests the class size needs to
be reduced 
		to 15 or less," he said.
		
		Wiliam added that investments in information
communication technology 
		have also shown a poor return. But international studies
have 
		confirmed that formative assessment can double the speed
of pupil 
		learning.
		
		Some teachers use a "traffic light" system and ask
pupils to hold up 
		different coloured cards to show whether they have
understood what 
		they have been told. Red means "no", amber means
"partly", and green 
		"yes". Pupils are also encouraged to evaluate their own
work and 
		advise their classmates on how they can improve.
		
		The English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish
education departments 
		have all provided varying degrees of backing for
formative assessment.
		
		After three years of research in both the UK and the US,
Wiliam 
		concluded that the approach would only take off properly
if teachers 
		work together in school-based groups to refine their
classroom methods.
		
		Wiliam and his co-researchers found that groups of eight
to 10 
		teachers who meet once a month for at least two years
can be most 
		effective. "It takes time to change teachers' ways of
working, 
		particularly if they have been in the classroom for many
years," said 
		Wiliam. "Simply telling teachers what to do doesn't
work."
		
		"For example, most teachers have heard about research
from the 1980s 
		which shows that if they wait three to five seconds
after asking a 
		question their pupils' performance improves because they
have been 
		given some time to think.
		
		"Even so, many teachers are still allowing less than a
second for 
		pupils to respond. The conclusion we can draw from that
is that 
		knowing what to do is the easy part of teaching.
Actually doing it is 
		what's hard."
		
		Wiliam told EducationGuardian.co.uk that teacher quality
was key to 
		any improvements.
		
		"To reduce class size from 30 to 20 would need 150,000
more teachers 
		and that would dilute the quality of teachers," he said.
		
		"We need to change what teachers do day in day out in
the classroom 
		and we need to get better teachers into the profession."
		
		Martin Johnson, acting deputy general secretary of the
Association of 
		Teachers and Lecturers, said the research should
encourage the 
		government to "put its money where its mouth is".
		
		"Staff need to work together to learn how to teach more
effectively, 
		but schools will need more resources to do this.
[Wiliam] reminds us 
		that this would be very cost-effective.
		
		"Schools have benefited hugely over the last decade from
having more 
		classroom based staff but much more training is needed
to make their 
		deployment fully effective.
		
		"And while the government says it encourages assessment
for learning, 
		its testing policies have stolen teachers'
self-confidence so new 
		training must be provided and resourced.
		
		"School staff desperately need a contractual entitlement
to training 
		which meets their individual needs."
		
		Copyright Guardian News and Media Limited
		
		
		
		David J. Rosen
		Special Topics Discussion Moderator
		djrosen at comcast.net
		
		
		
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