Yes, I do believe there is a difference between reading on the  
Internet and reading text on paper. Alas, my dissertation did not  
examine that, you end up with far too many statistical problems much  
less just the issue of someone talking about glare.

But I believe there is the issue of reading just plain text and  
reading text with hyperlinks. Goodman calls reading (ordinary  
reading) a guessing game. But is it not even more a guessing game  
when you as the reader can design the way in which you read, which  
links you choose etc? And for a second language learner does that not  
create possibly its own problems?

I do not say that reading digitally is less valid. But many adult ESL  
programs do what my non profit program did. We used the Internet in  
place of the library we could not afford. And yes I do think there is  
a difference in this.

I do not believe that the Internet replaces reading books. And, alas,  
I dislike the fact that most everything is now put on the Internet,  
dumped on the Internet, with no thought to layout etc.

I wonder, for example, how disconcerting just the advertisements are  
on the Internet to second language learners.

Reading works on cd-roms and multimedia can be used to enhance  
reading. But this is not the same, I believe, as just reading web pages.

ETS says there is no difference in reading the paper version and  
computerized texts. And yet the scoring is different and the amount  
of note taking required does change things.

T
Tommy B. McDonell, Ph.D.
Adjunct
H: 212-929-6768
W: 212-242-6800 x 152
C: 917-514-1354





On Oct 16, 2006, at 2:48 PM, Burkett, Barry wrote:


> Tommy,

>

> What do you mean, "I now wonder about using the Internet as a main  

> form

> of reading"?  Do you wonder why we, as educators, do not promote it

> more?  Do you think there is something lost between paper and  

> screen? Is

> digital reading less valid than paper... Are there comprehension  

> issues

> in one format and not the other.  Are we arguing the Gutenberg  

> Press all

> over again?

>

>> From my POV I think it would be interesting to look at differences

> between Contemporary's paper and digital formats of the Official

> Practice test, move from their into other tests like the ACT, SAT,  

> GED,

> etc.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: technology-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:technology-bounces at nifl.gov]

> On Behalf Of Tommy B. McDonell, Ph.D.

> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:07 PM

> To: The Technology and Literacy Discussion List

> Subject: [Technology 622] Re: (no subject)

>

> I rarely have time anymore to write on this board but I continue

> lurking.

>

> For what it is worth, I defended my dissertation at NYU last spring.

> My research examined how native and non native speakers of English  

> in a

> college and university read plain text and hypertext online. While  

> these

> students were not adult learners, I think that the results might

> surprise some people as these students scored high in most  

> examinations

> required to enter college and graduate school. The reading done was

> taken from Encarta. The reading was not adapted but the advertisements

> were removed.

>

> In the spring Dr. Eisenstein Ebsworth and I hope to replicate the  

> study

> at the International High School in Long Island City.

>

> At the time I did my dissertation and theoretical overview I did  

> not see

> much assessment of adults or for that matter of anyone. Some  

> studies had

> been done with school children and a few with adults, but all together

> these studies did not look at more than 30 people all together.

>

> As a former director of an adult program that incorporated technology

> into the second language classroom, I now wonder about using the

> Internet as a main form of reading.

>

> Take care.

>

> Tommy

>

>

> Tommy B. McDonell, Ph.D.

> Adjunct

> H: 212-929-6768

> W: 212-242-6800 x 152

> C: 917-514-1354

>

>

>

>

>

> On Oct 13, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Burkett, Barry wrote:

>

>> Now some questions for you:

>>

>> 1.  Have you assessed your students' web page reading skills? Has

>> anyone assessed adult learners' web page reading skills? Is there  

>> such

>

>> an assessment?

>> 2.  What impact do adult literacy programs have on students'  

>> access to

>

>> or use of computers or the Internet? I have seen an unpublished study

>> which found they have --- none -- and that makes me wonder why.  Any

>> ideas? Are you aware of any studies of adult literacy programs'  

>> impact

>

>> on students' access to or use of computers?

>> 3. Are adult literacy programs helping students to use assistive

>> technology -- for example, (free) text-to-speech web page reader

>> software that would enable them to join the community of internet

>> users even if they have difficulty reading text? If not, should this

>> be a program responsibility?

>>

>>

>> David J. Rosen

>> djrosen at comcast.net

>>

>>

>> David,

>>   As far as your questions are concerned I can only speak to my

>> experience with instructing groups of students.  I would split them

>> into two groups, as the BBC article suggests they are split into age

>> groups.

>> Older students, BI (before internet), are scared of the technology,

>> and sometimes literally, have to be handheld for online activities.

>> Then the younger students, AI (After Internet), go in with reckless

>> abandon, clicking on hypertext, clicking on pop-ups, unintentionally

>> loading spy ware, etc.

>>

>> The two groups take a lot of instruction.  With the AI group an

>> instructor has to compete with the groups energy, a lot of  

>> reigning-in

>

>> occurs.  The most successful use I had with this group came from a

>> group discussion about service projects(schema), the group set  

>> targets

>

>> of information they wanted, and then we went online to research.  We

>> used the research at the end to make a more informed service-learning

>> project based on student interest.

>>

>> Students did need to decipher information, so as an instructor I was

>> able to ask them questions, "Is this important to your goal?"  

>> "That is

>

>> interesting, how does it help?"  "Why do you need my Credit Card to

>> get information?" And so on.  They also pulled-up a lot of junk.

>>

>> I try and have my older students work with an online program offered

>> for free to residents of Kentucky.  PLATO Learning Technologies  

>> offers

>

>> online worksheets and whatnot thru Kentucky Virtual Adult Education,

>> www.kyvae.org.  (KET's Literacy Link is there, too.)  It is more

>> difficult to get older students to try the online programs.... The

>> student feels as if they will break something, as if they are not

>> smart enough, etc.  So the first thing the instructor must do is

>> overcome the student's self defeating attitudes. "You are smarter  

>> than

>

>> that piece of plastic."  "It can only do what you tell it."  "The

>> Computer can make some stupid answers." "Your taxes already paid for

>> it, we're not going to make you buy it again." etc.

>>

>> I think this BI/AI shift is present all over.  I am 28, and was

>> introduced to the internet in high school.  I e-mail more, and do  

>> more

>

>> on the internet than my sister who is 2 years older than I.  We both

>> feel that it is because of my over-exposure to the internet that  

>> makes

>

>> the difference.

>>

>> I hope that helps with question 1.

>>

>> As far as question 2, I am going to start teaching with PowerPoint

>> presentations to model technology use, Around December I'll give you

>> my opinion on how that went.

>>

>> And lastly, question 3, I asked our state technology person about

>> Dragon a while back, and we have a program installed here.  But as an

>> instructor am I wanting to build a students dependency on something

>> else, another crutch, that tells them they cannot do it?  Or am I

>> wanting to integrate this student into the technological world?  If

>> the latter, where is the student going to buy the program for their

>> home computer?  Will the library put it on their computers? Can I

>> really justify using 27% of the learning center's annual budget for a

>> license?

>> Isn't my purpose as a teacher to not just give someone a fish?   

>> That's

>

>> the dilemma...there are students who need the software, I agree, but

>> how do letting that person use that software here help them in the

>> rest of the world?

>>

>>

>> Now, my questions.  I mentioned Kentucky Virtual Adult Education

>> earlier, how many other states have this capability to instruct

>> online?

>> Instructors, how are do you feel it works for your students?  If  

>> there

>

>> is no research on virtual education's effectiveness, how do we  

>> start a

>

>> study and what can I do to help?

>>

>> Online education is becoming more and more watched, two Doctors were

>> recently arrested for operating without a license.  They studied

>> through a Virtual University that claims it was accredited, scary

>> stuff.

>>

>> Barry Burkett, Adult Educator

>> Thorn Hill Learning Center

>> Frankfort, KY

>> 502.223.3110

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Technology and Literacy mailing list

>> Technology at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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>

>

>

> Tommy B. McDonell, Ph.D.

> Adjunct

> H: 212-929-6768

> W: 212-242-6800 x 152

> C: 917-514-1354

>

>

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Technology and Literacy mailing list

> Technology at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/technology

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Technology and Literacy mailing list

> Technology at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/technology