Cathy,
We're piloting a new software called Learner Web.  Basically, it has the 
potential to solve the last problem you mentioned regarding our inability 
to get credit or seat time for the wonderful media rich websites that are 
out there.   Learner Web is basically framework structured by goals.  Each 
goal has steps and within each step there are resources that a learner 
accesses to help them accomplish the step & work toward the goal.    These 
resources can be the cool stuff you see online but know you cant collect 
proxy hours for.   There is also a workspace associated with each step in 
Learner Web.  What we do with the Workspace is present a quiz or some 
other assessment measures the learner's comprehension of what they saw in 
the resources (those cool external to Learner Web websites).    We've been 
encouraged by our state department of education to figure out proxy hour 
awards for the content we are building into & linking to in Learner Web. 
We are doing this because we need to find a way to get our ABE learners 
using the internet AND because we eventually want to use distance learning 
as a way to reach a new audience - those who never come to us in the first 
place.   The project is still a pilot (actually "national demonstration 
project").  You can check it out by going to www.learnerweb.org.

Jen Vanek
St. Paul Adult Learning/St. Paul Community LIteracy Consortium






"Cathy Coleman" <cathyc at qcc.mass.edu>
Sent by: technology-bounces at nifl.gov
10/01/09 01:26 PM
Please respond to The Technology and Distance Learning Discussion List 
 
        To:     "The Technology and Distance Learning Discussion List" 
<technology at nifl.gov>
        cc: 
        Subject:        [Technology 2373] Re: Technological Literacy 
Framework       -proxy  hours/media rich on-line learning


You are so right. Knowing the amount of effort being made on a lesson
is important.  I've had some students buzz through a lesson of say 18 or
19 screens in under 5 minutes or have a pattern of highly interrupted
study time.. 2 mins on lesson 3, followed by 3.5 mins on lesson 3 etc.
It's interesting, and I'm not sure if it has to do with the way the
system measures time. It could be that if a student doesn't move the
mouse for a time, they get timed out and that's why that pattern is
seen. In terms of the time they spend on a lesson in the software, if
they can actually get it, I'm fine w/ their doing it in 5 minutes, but
that is almost never the case.

Some of the information you can get in a software program like MHC is
helpful for sure. An interesting and disheartening trend I have found
through looking at the reports is that a number of students seem to
believe that by simply doing the quizzes and tests in the software over
and over again, they will learn the content. They call me and are
frustrated that they can't get past a certain point in the program. It
keeps saying they need to do it again. I ask how the lesson went that
preceded the quiz, and they confess they didn't do the lesson. *sigh*

Another concern I have with the kind of drill and kill software
that seems to abound in GED is that the feedback given to students
regarding wrong answers is often pretty lame -- something to the effect
of "Sorry. That is not correct" It amounts to "The answer is d because
it is not a, b, c, or e." -- not very useful in terms of learning, and
students who get stuck unfortunately don't always have the study
skills/metacognitive skills to know that this is a time to get some help
from the teacher. They just keep guessing until they get it right which
is somewhat encouraged by the fact that the software has it set up to do
the same quiz until they pass it.

I should clarify maybe though regarding measuring time. I agree that
knowing the time someone spends doing their GED work is useful to a
degree, but I guess that basically I agree with what Michael said. I'd
like to know if students are cognitively engaged which, unfortunately,
is a lot harder to measure. I'd also like to take advantage of the rich
resources available on the internet and encourage  students to more
actively engage with ideas and technology they encounter, but... What's
that old saying? What counts is what's counted. It's harder to measure
proxy hours when you send a student to a great interactive web site, and
unfortunately there is a disincentive built in for sending students
there if we have such a focus on seat time.  For example, I send
students to a great website that has a flash version of base ten cubes,
which, when used with some well thought out questions from teachers, is
nearly always more valuable than the minutes measured spent in
frustration on the decimal lesson in the software.


Cathy

QCC GED Online:"Where giving up is not an option"
Cathy Coleman
GED Online Coordinator/Instructor
Quinsigamond Community College
508-854-2725
CathyC at qcc.mass.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: technology-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:technology-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Susan Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:04 PM
To: technology at nifl.gov
Subject: [Technology 2371] Re: Technological Literacy Framework -proxy
hours/media rich on-line learning

Very good points.

I can tell you that it's very important, when people come back to us and
say "why did this work?" or "why didn't this work?"  to be able to
discern how much time a student spent doing "this."



Susan Jones
Academic Development Specialist
Center for Academic Success
Parkland College
Champaign, IL  61821
217-353-2056
sujones at parkland.edu
Webmastress,
http://www.resourceroom.net
http://bicyclecu.blogspot.com



>>> jenifer.vanek at spps.org 9/29/2009 1:28 PM >>>

Michael & everyone,
I think there are two separate issues here:
1-Computer based or on-line learning tools that have rich media options.
2-Need to track seat time (proxy hours) for time spent using these
tools.

We want our learners to have an opportunity to use on-line learning.
Many
move on to post-sec education where they must take on-line classes.
Having
the rich media options builds interest and makes it easier for them to

learn to be on-line learners.   Also important is to give the learners
a
chance to be engaged in distance learning, since this is a vital part of

on-line learning in post-secondary institutions.   In our program we
cannot ignore the question of seat time or proxy hours.  For our
distance learning programming to be financially sustainable, we need to
report these hours to the state.

I think we can have learner centered, media rich programming in our
on-line/distance learning classes.   In fact, we must figure out a way
to
do this well to be relevant!

Jen Vanek
ABE Instructor/Learner Web Regional Admin for St. Paul

www.learnerweb.org







Michael Ormsby <michaelormsby at mac.com>
Sent by: technology-bounces at nifl.gov
09/29/09 10:58 AM
Please respond to The Technology and Literacy Discussion List

To:     The Technology and Literacy Discussion List
<technology at nifl.gov>
cc:
Subject:        [Technology 2365] Re: Technological Literacy
Framework


Hello Cathy,
I'm familiar with the MHC programs, as well as Steck-Vaughn, Plato,
Aztec, and a few others.  The essential problem with this type of
computer directed learning is that it's text-based.  It assumes that
learners can learn effectively by reading text on a computer monitor.
Yes, some of the programs include a voice over for the text, but that
doesn't overcome the basic flaw.  I keep asking myself, why would anyone
think that adult learners who did not complete high school or in some
cases middle school can learn effectively from reading text on a
computer or in a book?

I too wonder about all the emphasis in measuring 'seat time'?  As an
educator I'm much more interested in trying to figure out if my students
are really learning anything and are being engaged cognitively.  What's
the point of producing all sorts of reports about how the students do on
quizzes if the quizzes are really measuring anything important.

I'm a strong advocate of computer direct learning, but the way it's
being used is not doing much more than offering an alternative to
worksheets and drill and practice.  I see the real power of CDL as
producing a truly individualized learning experience for the learner,
one that adapts to exactly what they need to be successful.  I look at
it as a way to go back to one-on-one learning, much like the
apprenticeship.


Michael Ormsby
CEO, Essential Education Corporation
http://www.essentialed.org/
541-740-4717










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