Thanks, Elsa--I hope so.  This information really deserves to be shared
widely, if that is possible.   

Laurie


>>> elsa.auerbach at umb.edu 12/01 10:18 AM >>>

I completely agree with Laurie.  I'm hoping that in the short run,
someone
could "compose" this discussion into a single piece (cutting and
pasting?)
so that it's all on one document (any takers?).  I've been trying to
keep
track of it, but seem to have big missing pieces.  From there, perhaps
it
would be easier to write something up for publication.  My guess is
that
Brenda already has in mind to do some writing about her
insights/research/experiences.

Elsa Auerbach
On 12/1/05 10:10 AM, "Laurie Sheridan" <laurie_sheridan at worlded.org>
wrote:


> This is wonderful--I am so grateful for your insights and

perspective,

> Brenda, and for the discussion they have sparked.  I have been

finding

> this information incredibly fascinating and valuable over the last

few

> weeks.  Even the very disturbing parts (in fact, sometimes

especially

> the disturbing parts), because there is so much hope, learning and

> progress going on and that comes through quite clearly.

> 

> My thought is--wouldn't it be wonderful to publish some of this

> "material" for a wider audience?  For example:  Ms., The Women's

Review

> of Books (which has just resumed publication), even mainstream

"women's

> magazines" in this country.  And we could think of other

publications

> that would reach men as well as women, too--I took very seriously

the

> points made by Ujwala and others about the need to include men in

> discussions of gender rights in this country and everywhere.    I

think

> a lot of people would be interested in what you are seeing and

> learning--inside and outside the adult ed community.  Does anyone

have

> any thoughts about this?

> 

> Laurie Sheridan

> Workforce Development Coordinator

> World Education

> 44 Farnsworth St.

> Boston, MA 02210

> (617) 482-9485 Ext. 509

> lsheridan at worlded.org 

> 

>>>> BBell at edc.org 12/01 6:15 AM >>>

> Hello everyone.   This will be a long post - as I've been away from

the

> discussion list for several days.

> 

> 

> 

> n this email I'll try to give some perspectives and thoughts on

> violence and on violence against women here in Afghanistan.  This is

in

> reply to earlier questions about women's willingness to talk about

> violence in their lives and about burning issues for women, and in

> reference to the recent conference here in Kabul on eliminating

violence

> against women.

> 

> 

> 

> Yesterday over lunch with eight women who are teacher trainers, I

had

> the opportunity to ask a few questions.  We were discussing rural

> economic development, having just come out a session where they were

> planning and practicing a workshop for new village literacy teachers

on

> the objectives of LCEP (Literacy and Community Empowerment).  I asked

if

> they thought rural women would say that lack of money is the most

> important issue for them as women.  Absolutely not, they said.  The

> biggest issue is women's human rights - the right not to be married

off

> at 11 or 12; the right to not be abused or beaten, the right to

> education; the right not to have 12 children.

> 

> 

> 

> This led us into a discussion of the recent local conference on

> eliminating violence against women, in which one staff person had

> participated.  The issues are becoming a little different for

educated

> women in Kabul, she said. She said that in addition to the 'usual'

ways

> in which violence is perpetrated against women by men, some women at

> this conference were talking about the rise in what she called

> 'psychological' violence that women use against each other.  She

gave

> the example of one very highly placed government official who said

that

> since she has been appointed, women have turned against her, are

jealous

> of her, and are undermining her efforts.

> 

> 

> 

> Overall, the conference was focused on establishing some common

goals

> and strategies for raising awareness and educating women and men

about

> violence against women.  There was participation by key Ministries -

> such those of Women's Affairs, Social and Labor Affairs, Health,

> Education, Higher Education, Finance, and the Haj - as well as by

the

> Human Rights Commission and international and national NGOs.  While

each

> group committed to developing specific strategies, there were

several

> recommendations - such as using the Women's Affairs centers in each

> province to hold awareness-raising and strategy workshops at the

> provincial level; and to establish national regulations for

registering

> engagements (as important as the marriage itself) - to protect very

> young women.  And - to expand the number (currently only 4 - one in

> Kabul and 3 in the provinces) of shelters for women.  Some of the

> documents from the conference will be translated in to English, and

if

> I'm still here when they are made available, I will try to share

them.

> 

> 

> 

> Now - back to individual stories.  I asked a Western friend who

speaks

> good Dari to share her experiences with Afghans (and women in

> particular) talking about violence in their lives.  Here are some

> excerpts from what she had to say:

> 

> 

> 

> "In terms of violence against women, all I can tell you is it

happens

> and most people know and don't question it

> 

> 

> 

> "I was talking to a group of folks last night and the topic of

violence

> came up.  Killing is violence -  but beating is not considered

violence.

> Beating is considered part of educating and ensuring good behavior.

> Interestingly, about 2 years ago, there was study that showed that

> beating is conducted by 90% of formal school teachers.

> 

> 

> 

> "Once I was privy to an odd conversation. I was in the back seat

> driving around the roads of Bamiyan and the Hazara driver was

speaking

> with an Easterner who had gone to the West.

> 

> "I hear that they don't beat their wives in America".  The returnee

> said, "It's true-- even some students take their teachers to court

if

> there is any suspicion that the teachers have even touched them." 

Said

> the driver, "That's awful.  People lose their values when they go to

the

> West".

> 

> 

> 

> My friend also shared a couple of other stories ....

> 

> "There was a woman who was going home in the early evening in

> Macrorayan (the big area of Soviet-built apartment blocks in Kabul).

A

> taxi was speeding and hit her.  After all the uproar they got the

woman

> out from under the car.  She told the taxi driver 'if only you would

> have been going faster and killed me, because it is better that I

were

> dead, than go home late and get beating from my husband for being so

> late.'

> 

> 

> 

> 'Also I was told about a man who killed his wife.  He found she was

a

> "woman" not "a daughter" after they married and so he killed her on

the

> second day of marriage.  He strangled her.

> 

> 

> 

> "Once we had a Gender Training for people in our program.   And of

the

> 1 million 3 hundred thousand trainings we have had, this was the

most

> compelling I have ever witnessed. People were so heated and there was

so

> much back and forth.  We started out by addressing stereotypes. We

got

> in groups and each group had to fill in the blank.

> 

> An Afghan man is...

> 

> An Afghan woman is

> 

> An Afghan man should be..

> 

> An Afghan woman should be

> 

> 

> 

> "In the Afghan men's group the answers were  'He is .....hospitable

> ......kind..... faithful......loyal

> 

> fights for his country .......fights against colonialism.  This came

> from the men.

> 

> ... this came from the men.  The women in the group said...He is

> .....cruel......beats his wife........steps on the rights of women.

> 

> 

> 

> "And from there the heated debates began.   When we came to the

> statement  'An Afghan woman should be... ',  the first answer that

> popped out was...'Veiled!'

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> ________________________________

> 

> From: womenliteracy-bounces at dev.nifl.gov on behalf of Ujwala Samant

> Sent: Thu 12/1/2005 12:01 AM

> To: The Women &amp, Literacy Discussion List

> Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in

Afghanistan

> 

> 

> 

> Ryan,

> 

>>   What do you mean by "but we don't have a similar

>> movement for men"?<

> 

> Women's movements tend to exclude men.  Western

> feminist movements have typically done so and the term

> 'gender' is used in lieu of or often referring to

> women/girls/females. In the Third world, my experience

> of feminist movements or movements for social change

> was a real eye opener. Women, especially poor women

> had no desire to exclude men from their efforts

> towards equity. The notion that the sexes are

> different is accepted but equal is not. The same women

> who taught me about the difference between education

> and literacy, explained their perceptions of equity

> and equality. What they looked for was equity, or

> fairness regardless of their gender. Equality was a

> completely different issue to them. In their eyes, no

> social change would ever endure unless they included

> their men, young and old. Hence they preferred to have

> young men as tutors, as social interpreters and with

> delicate negotiations (I learned a lot about diplomacy

> in my years in the slums) they earned the support of

> the older men as well.

> 

> In a different example, in the Himalayan foothills, in

> one of our projects, I've seen women and men as

> healers, as teachers, as parents and a number of them

> attend life skills classes to share everything from

> childbirth to cooking, farming and market work as well

> as administering the village school in between.

> 

> Aside from the research I found in the 1990s for my

> research, my own observations after living in the US

> and France showed me that with so-called liberation

> and 'equality', the division of labour between men and

> women had not changed. Women just found additional

> work and labour attached to their already considerable

> (traditional) workload.

> 

> The point I am making is that for lasting social

> change, men have to be included in any movement.

> Whether they need a separate movement for this, I

> don't know. But whilst I see some difference in male

> roles, I still see a majority of our work roles,

> salaries earned, who stays at home being decided in a

> traditional manner.

> 

> I am not saying there were no valid reasons for a

> women's movement to be exclusive. I just found what I

> learned when I returned to India for that prolonged

> length of time, fascinating, turning all my

> theoretical work in the US on it's head. Opened my

> eyes to the spectrum of what is power, empowerment,

> social change, equity and equality.

> 

> Regards,

> Ujwala

> 

> 

> 

>              

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