I would also be interested in how policies, state, federal, or local
affect class size. Two areas that come to my mind where policies could
affect class size are cost per student and enrollment quotas. I'm sure
there are other areas. Have others given this serious thought? Are there
policies you can think of that affect class size, either supporting
smaller or larger classes? Is it the intent of these policies to affect
size or is it an unintended consequence?

Rose Brandt


On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:26:53 -0500 Donna Brian <djgbrian at utk.edu> writes:

> Ronna and all,

> 

> My major professor used to tell those who asked that the optimal 

> class size 

> was one student: in other words, one-on-one tutoring.  I'm not sure 

> I 

> believe that in all cases, since class interaction provides richness 

> too, 

> especially for English Language Learners, but the idea that smaller 

> is 

> better and that we do usually have to compromise with what is best 

> based on 

> our good judgment along with the resources available is probably 

> right.  You seem to have a lot of experience and expertise, so I 

> think you 

> should tell this organization that your good judgment does not 

> agree, and 

> that you don't find that number of learners per class to be 

> workable.  You 

> will ultimately have to be the one to set your limits, and their 

> choice 

> will be to retain you or not.

> 

> This topic has raised a lot of interesting points, hasn't it? Ronna 

> 

> originally asked for research to back her personal expertise, and I 

> don't 

> think anyone has provided any.  We've all had personal expertise to 

> share, 

> though.  So is there research out there specifically pertaining to 

> optimal 

> class size for a "low-level ESL classroom?"  Or is there only class 

> size 

> research available for other populations?  Research relevance to the 

> adult 

> ed population is often the question for us, isn't it?

> 

> Thanks for all these good posts!

> 

> Donna

> 

> Donna JG Brian

> Moderator, NIFL Workplace Literacy Discussion List, and

> Coordinator/Developer LINCS Workforce Education Special Collection 

> at 

> http://worklink.coe.utk.edu/

> Center for Literacy Studies at The University of Tennessee

> 600 Henley Street, Suite 312

> Knoxville, TN 37996-4135

> 

> 865-974-3420 (desk phone) FAX 865-974-3857

> djgbrian at utk.edu

> 

> 

> At 1/19/2006 -050010:48 AM, you wrote:

> >In my 15 year experience in the classroom and as a student in 

> education 

> >classrooms spanning the same time,  the optimal number for special 

> 

> >populations has been cited at around 15.  This means there is time 

> for the 

> >teacher to interact with each student and increases time on task. 

> 50 in a 

> >class is far too much for such an interactive necessity as language 

> 

> >learning, unless the person who told you believes that learning a 

> language 

> >is a passive process akin to watching t.v.(which it is not). In any 

> 

> >conversation with a professional educator who knows the research 

> that I 

> >have had, the understanding is that lower class size matters 

> greatly, and 

> >this goes for all populations (and especially if you are talking 

> K-12, 

> >ESL, and Special Ed.)

> >

> >Wm. Peter MacMonagle, M.Ed.

> >Central Piedmont Community College

> >West Campus 2219

> >Community Development/Workplace Basic Skills

> >704-330-4668

> >

> >Murphy's Law of Possibility: All things are possible

> >except skiing through a revolving door.

> >

> >

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: workplace-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Ronna

> >Sent: Wed 1/18/2006 4:21 PM

> >To: 'The Workplace Literacy Discussion List'

> >Subject: [Workplace] Optimal number of students in a classroom

> >

> >Help me please.... I'm working with this organization that insists 

> that they

> >had an ESL teacher who told them that you can effectively teach 50 

> people at

> >a time.  I've been teaching workplace ESL and regular ESL for 15 

> years,

> >doing teacher training AND have a masters in TESOL and have never 

> heard

> >that.  She really frustrated me, so I need some facts/research 

> about the

> >optimal number of students in a low level ESL classroom.  At the 

> university,

> >we never had more than 25.  In the workplace, I never allow more 

> than 30 to

> >sign up.

> >

> >Please help and THANKS!!!!

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------

> >Workplace ESL Solutions

> >Ronna Timpa

> >Author, Leader & Motivator

> >ronna at WorkplaceESL.com

> >tel: (702) 873-3520

> >fax: (702) 896-5689

> >mobile: (702) 812-2161

> >------------------------------------

> >

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